Horizon BBC2 - Infinity
Discussion
Watching it at the moment.
No realy mind blowing stuff here imo.
I've always had a pretty good grasp of infinity.
If the universe is infinate then somewhere there's a guy just like me.
He has had the exact same life experiences as me, however when typing up this post he took a second longer doing it.
I wish this show wasn't so stylised though. Feel like I'm in some kind of film noir maths lesson.
No realy mind blowing stuff here imo.
I've always had a pretty good grasp of infinity.
If the universe is infinate then somewhere there's a guy just like me.
He has had the exact same life experiences as me, however when typing up this post he took a second longer doing it.
I wish this show wasn't so stylised though. Feel like I'm in some kind of film noir maths lesson.
Some interesting playing with numbers. The odds/time req`d on the monkey typing just 17 letters in a correct sequence ( was it more than 13.6 billion years ? ) let alone the complete works of Shakespeare was neat.
The referencing to the universe being infinite isn`t really correct though
I didn`t think the universe was/is infinite, if it`s been expanding by creating space at the speed of light since the big bang then it`s around 13.6 billion light years from it`s centre to edge, you can`t say what`s beyond the edge because there isn`t anything, unless you dip into Alice in Wonderland type dreaming
I find a way of rationalising infinity is to take the three primary colours, you can make an infinite number of colours / shades from them, you`ll need an infinite number of drips of each colour but you only need the three colours
The referencing to the universe being infinite isn`t really correct though
I didn`t think the universe was/is infinite, if it`s been expanding by creating space at the speed of light since the big bang then it`s around 13.6 billion light years from it`s centre to edge, you can`t say what`s beyond the edge because there isn`t anything, unless you dip into Alice in Wonderland type dreaming
I find a way of rationalising infinity is to take the three primary colours, you can make an infinite number of colours / shades from them, you`ll need an infinite number of drips of each colour but you only need the three colours
I found it quite interesting but don't understand/disagreed with the ending where there are infinite me's in the infinite universe etc etc.
From what i understand. Infinity is born from counting; if the largest number in the world is n there is always n+1. Because of this you can always add something to infinity and you can subtract somehting from infinity and still get infinity.......and if you had say two infinite numbers and you subtract them the result can be anything from 0 to infinity as you cannot tell what number each inifnite number represented (beacuse it is too large)
But i do not agree that there are infinite copies of me, dreams, worlds, universes all doing potentially the same things infinitely. Beacuse to me infinity is n+1 it does not at any point find that n+1 is so large that is resets and starts counting again. It just keeps going producing infinite n+1 results which are all unique.
From what i understand. Infinity is born from counting; if the largest number in the world is n there is always n+1. Because of this you can always add something to infinity and you can subtract somehting from infinity and still get infinity.......and if you had say two infinite numbers and you subtract them the result can be anything from 0 to infinity as you cannot tell what number each inifnite number represented (beacuse it is too large)
But i do not agree that there are infinite copies of me, dreams, worlds, universes all doing potentially the same things infinitely. Beacuse to me infinity is n+1 it does not at any point find that n+1 is so large that is resets and starts counting again. It just keeps going producing infinite n+1 results which are all unique.
guffhoover said:
But i do not agree that there are infinite copies of me, dreams, worlds, universes all doing potentially the same things infinitely. Beacuse to me infinity is n+1 it does not at any point find that n+1 is so large that is resets and starts counting again. It just keeps going producing infinite n+1 results which are all unique.
But (and this is my understanding, so may well be wrong) there are only a finite number of ways that a collection of atoms (or sub-atomic particles) can be arranged, therefore at some point an exact copy of you would be produced.guffhoover said:
I
From what i understand. Infinity is born from counting; if the largest number in the world is n there is always n+1. Because of this you can always add something to infinity and you can subtract somehting from infinity and still get infinity.......and if you had say two infinite numbers and you subtract them the result can be anything from 0 to infinity as you cannot tell what number each inifnite number represented (beacuse it is too large)
I thought someone said in the programme that infinity - infinity was either 0 or 1?From what i understand. Infinity is born from counting; if the largest number in the world is n there is always n+1. Because of this you can always add something to infinity and you can subtract somehting from infinity and still get infinity.......and if you had say two infinite numbers and you subtract them the result can be anything from 0 to infinity as you cannot tell what number each inifnite number represented (beacuse it is too large)
TBH I'm still trying to get my head around the bit with the diagonals - I had to go and have a stiff whisky after they dropped that one on me.
evenflow said:
guffhoover said:
But i do not agree that there are infinite copies of me, dreams, worlds, universes all doing potentially the same things infinitely. Beacuse to me infinity is n+1 it does not at any point find that n+1 is so large that is resets and starts counting again. It just keeps going producing infinite n+1 results which are all unique.
But (and this is my understanding, so may well be wrong) there are only a finite number of ways that a collection of atoms (or sub-atomic particles) can be arranged, therefore at some point an exact copy of you would be produced.Say the atomic world repeats infinitely and in theory the atoms that make me are repeated. Surely that means that there is somebody who looks like me (a twin of sorts) but my decisions, dreams, subconscious and dare i say it soul are not defined by atomic make up. Or does it?
Is there another level of rules which relate to those things that are not governed by atoms. The things of the human consciousness (sp) that cannot be measured. Is this where science starts to fall away and philosophy rears its warped head?
guffhoover said:
I like your comment; i hadn't thought of it in that manner. Life as we know it is bound by atoms / sub-atomic particles. I think i am correct in assuming that the universe, us and the rules that govern it all relate to these little critters.
I'm not a scientist, but this is my understanding too.guffhoover said:
Say the atomic world repeats infinitely and in theory the atoms that make me are repeated. Surely that means that there is somebody who looks like me (a twin of sorts) but my decisions, dreams, subconscious and dare i say it soul are not defined by atomic make up. Or does it?
Is there another level of rules which relate to those things that are not governed by atoms. The things of the human consciousness (sp) that cannot be measured. Is this where science starts to fall away and philosophy rears its warped head?
I certainly think that concepts such as infinity take science to a more philosophical place. There is also a subjective element of course: a religious person may say that your soul is not defined by your sub-atomic make up; a non-religious one that the soul doesn't exist and chemicals dictate your entire physical and mental being.Is there another level of rules which relate to those things that are not governed by atoms. The things of the human consciousness (sp) that cannot be measured. Is this where science starts to fall away and philosophy rears its warped head?
Fascinating stuff.
Pobolycwm said:
The referencing to the universe being infinite isn`t really correct though
I didn`t think the universe was/is infinite, if it`s been expanding by creating space at the speed of light since the big bang then it`s around 13.6 billion light years from it`s centre to edge, you can`t say what`s beyond the edge because there isn`t anything, unless you dip into Alice in Wonderland type dreaming
No, that's the VISIBLE universe. The actual universe has been expanding for 13.6 billion years yes, BUT it didn't expand at the speed of light! If you look at the inflation theory and quantum theory, it appears that the initial expansion was before the laws of physics applied and was at a speed far in excess of the speed of light. It is NOW expanding at the speed of light, but we don't know how big it was after the initial inflation took place. HTHI didn`t think the universe was/is infinite, if it`s been expanding by creating space at the speed of light since the big bang then it`s around 13.6 billion light years from it`s centre to edge, you can`t say what`s beyond the edge because there isn`t anything, unless you dip into Alice in Wonderland type dreaming
Oh, and there is no centre of the universe.
Edited by sy534534 on Thursday 11th February 19:09
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski...
Another neat paradox.
[quote]
The Banach–Tarski paradox is a theorem in set theoretic geometry which states that a solid ball in 3-dimensional space can be split into a finite number of non-overlapping pieces, which can then be put back together in a different way to yield two identical copies of the original ball.
[/quote]
Another neat paradox.
[quote]
The Banach–Tarski paradox is a theorem in set theoretic geometry which states that a solid ball in 3-dimensional space can be split into a finite number of non-overlapping pieces, which can then be put back together in a different way to yield two identical copies of the original ball.
[/quote]
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