Queen Elizabeth's Trip to Ireland
Discussion
On May 17th, The Queen makes the first visit of a reigning British monarch to the Irish Republic. Indeed, it is the first visit of a reigning monarch to Dublin since Edward VII in 1910.
I think it is a momentous and historic moment for both countries and emphasises the maturity of the relationship between Britain and Ireland. I just hope that anti-British hotheads don't spoil the occasion too much.
I think it is a momentous and historic moment for both countries and emphasises the maturity of the relationship between Britain and Ireland. I just hope that anti-British hotheads don't spoil the occasion too much.
As an Irishman living in Ireland, I welcome it too. I'm 30 years old now and grew up in an Ireland where every night on the news we heard of another person/group of people being maimed or killed in the name of one cause or another.
I watched the peace process unfold, former great enemies sitting around table and sorting out their differences in a sensible practical way. I've come to admire the men and women that made it happen, regardless of whether I agree with their politics or not, the level of mindset change that had to take place on a huge scale on all sides to achieve what was achieved is incredible.
The Queens visit is symbolic of how far our two countries have come and how repairing the mistakes of the past has brought us closer together. There will always be extremists who for whatever reason enjoy the violence, but they are in the minority. The vast majority of people in both countries now just want to live together in peace. We can't change our pasts, but thats no reason to let them shape our future.
I watched the peace process unfold, former great enemies sitting around table and sorting out their differences in a sensible practical way. I've come to admire the men and women that made it happen, regardless of whether I agree with their politics or not, the level of mindset change that had to take place on a huge scale on all sides to achieve what was achieved is incredible.
The Queens visit is symbolic of how far our two countries have come and how repairing the mistakes of the past has brought us closer together. There will always be extremists who for whatever reason enjoy the violence, but they are in the minority. The vast majority of people in both countries now just want to live together in peace. We can't change our pasts, but thats no reason to let them shape our future.
patmahe said:
As an Irishman living in Ireland, I welcome it too. I'm 30 years old now and grew up in an Ireland where every night on the news we heard of another person/group of people being maimed or killed in the name of one cause or another.
I watched the peace process unfold, former great enemies sitting around table and sorting out their differences in a sensible practical way. I've come to admire the men and women that made it happen, regardless of whether I agree with their politics or not, the level of mindset change that had to take place on a huge scale on all sides to achieve what was achieved is incredible.
The Queens visit is symbolic of how far our two countries have come and how repairing the mistakes of the past has brought us closer together. There will always be extremists who for whatever reason enjoy the violence, but they are in the minority. The vast majority of people in both countries now just want to live together in peace. We can't change our pasts, but thats no reason to let them shape our future.
Well said...I watched the peace process unfold, former great enemies sitting around table and sorting out their differences in a sensible practical way. I've come to admire the men and women that made it happen, regardless of whether I agree with their politics or not, the level of mindset change that had to take place on a huge scale on all sides to achieve what was achieved is incredible.
The Queens visit is symbolic of how far our two countries have come and how repairing the mistakes of the past has brought us closer together. There will always be extremists who for whatever reason enjoy the violence, but they are in the minority. The vast majority of people in both countries now just want to live together in peace. We can't change our pasts, but thats no reason to let them shape our future.
Some of the finest individuals I have ever met have been Irish and I personally, having grown up post "troubles", find it easy to put the past behind me and look forward to a friendly future with our closest neighbour.
Good thoughts all.
I think "folk memory hatred" is a generational thing and if you can get through at least one generation without the anger and the violence, then you might have broken the chain and a new relationship can develop.
In reality, the relationshiop between ordinary people on the ground and at a cultural sharing level has always been pretty good. The English and the Irish, on a one to one basis, get on very well with each other - on the whole. They just don't always want to admit it.
I think "folk memory hatred" is a generational thing and if you can get through at least one generation without the anger and the violence, then you might have broken the chain and a new relationship can develop.
In reality, the relationshiop between ordinary people on the ground and at a cultural sharing level has always been pretty good. The English and the Irish, on a one to one basis, get on very well with each other - on the whole. They just don't always want to admit it.
I'm absolutely, utterly staggered, that she has been invited into Croke Park by the GAA. Regardless of what else happened, I never thought I would see that.
Massively symbolic event, and a fantastic seal on the peace proccess. Must have been a mountain to climb for the GAA, they have my complete respect and admiration.
Great event.
Massively symbolic event, and a fantastic seal on the peace proccess. Must have been a mountain to climb for the GAA, they have my complete respect and admiration.
Great event.
It's been part of a process. The use of Croke Park for soccer matches and the hosting of International Rugby matches, particularly against England, were all part of the "baby steps" required to get to this point.
The Queen is visiting both the Garden of Remembrance to Irish nationalists who faught against the Crown and the Memorial Gardens to the Irish who fell fighting FOR the Crown in Britain's wars.
The Queen is visiting both the Garden of Remembrance to Irish nationalists who faught against the Crown and the Memorial Gardens to the Irish who fell fighting FOR the Crown in Britain's wars.
Eric Mc said:
I think "folk memory hatred" is a generational thing and if you can get through at least one generation without the anger and the violence, then you might have broken the chain and a new relationship can develop.
But we, the English, committed some spectacularly terrible acts against the Irish population over many centuries. Most would now be considered genocide. That takes a long time to heal and a way has to be found to educate the young in their nations history without causing undue ferment. I think it is certainly a good move and one that shows how far we have progressed. It should help work towards a deeper understanding that past crimes are not the direct fault of the current generations.
I do hope nobody is hoping or indeed calling for the Queen to make a speech where she actively apologises for historical events.
Only now in the 21st century are we, the English, able to look at the world history of the 17th, 18th, 19th & early 20th centuries and the Empire and adjust our understanding that it wasn't all quite as glorious as we were led to believe from the history lessons. We may have given the world a lot and left the idea of parliamentary democracy and the ideas of fairness of English rule of law across much of the globe, but many of those countries paid so heavily in terms of natural resources - which includes people of course.
Cromwell is obviously despised in Ireland and I guess he probably isn't exactly best loved within the Royal family either. Charles I was a very poor King, but they wouldn't admit that, and advocate that his removal and execution was the right way to go to the world would they ?
I too hope it passes peacefully and the Irish people have a right craic. They deserve an excuse for a distraction and a little cheering up after their economy over-heated and disintegrated through no real fault of the general populace.
After all, are not the original Irish Celts considered the clever ones ? Those that could swim or coracle their way across the sea from Wales, and away from the marauding Saxons and later the 12th C English
I don't think the Irish Celts were on the run from Romans or Saxons. They were already in situ by then.
Don't forget that neither the Romans nor Saxons (nor Vikings later) were really able to hold down ALL of the British mainland and strong segments of Celtic society and culture lived on right until the 18th Century.
It was the Normans who made the most inroads into unifying the islands under a common law and loyalty to one monarch - although they and their successors struggled at times to keep that loyalty in line with whoever the monarch happened to be.
Ireland became an important adjunct to the various struggles for the British crown with some very important battles in regards to the English monarch being faught on Irish soil.
Don't forget that neither the Romans nor Saxons (nor Vikings later) were really able to hold down ALL of the British mainland and strong segments of Celtic society and culture lived on right until the 18th Century.
It was the Normans who made the most inroads into unifying the islands under a common law and loyalty to one monarch - although they and their successors struggled at times to keep that loyalty in line with whoever the monarch happened to be.
Ireland became an important adjunct to the various struggles for the British crown with some very important battles in regards to the English monarch being faught on Irish soil.
tubbystu said:
Only now in the 21st century are we, the English, able to look at the world history of the 17th, 18th, 19th & early 20th centuries and the Empire and adjust our understanding that it wasn't all quite as glorious as we were led to believe from the history lessons.
That's right, because the British Empire was an entirely English affair wasn't it? There certainly weren't any people vital to the empire from Wales, Scotland or Ireland were there? The British army was also entirely made up of English soldiers - not a single Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman in any of the armed forces during that time. Yes indeed, it was only England that created the empire and only England that benefited from it. 
Caulkhead said:
tubbystu said:
Only now in the 21st century are we, the English, able to look at the world history of the 17th, 18th, 19th & early 20th centuries and the Empire and adjust our understanding that it wasn't all quite as glorious as we were led to believe from the history lessons.
That's right, because the British Empire was an entirely English affair wasn't it? There certainly weren't any people vital to the empire from Wales, Scotland or Ireland were there? The British army was also entirely made up of English soldiers - not a single Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman in any of the armed forces during that time. Yes indeed, it was only England that created the empire and only England that benefited from it. Pothole said:
Caulkhead said:
tubbystu said:
Only now in the 21st century are we, the English, able to look at the world history of the 17th, 18th, 19th & early 20th centuries and the Empire and adjust our understanding that it wasn't all quite as glorious as we were led to believe from the history lessons.
That's right, because the British Empire was an entirely English affair wasn't it? There certainly weren't any people vital to the empire from Wales, Scotland or Ireland were there? The British army was also entirely made up of English soldiers - not a single Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman in any of the armed forces during that time. Yes indeed, it was only England that created the empire and only England that benefited from it. So surely the English need to take the bulk of responsibility for
a; some of the good stuff
and more importantly
b; most of the bad stuff.
If the other members of the Union want to put their respective hands up to accept some blame for the atrocities then all well and good. Feel free.
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