It's all Thatcher's fault.
Discussion
Yup, of course it's Maggie's fault.
Yahoo.com said:
West Ham manager Sam Allardyce has blamed Margaret Thatcher for "killing football" and creating a modern-day generation of unfit, obese children in the United Kingdom.
Allardyce says that all UK sports, not just football, are suffering because of policies adopted by former Prime Minister Thatcher's Conservative governments throughout the 1980s.
In a scathing attack in The Sun newspaper on Saturday, Allardyce said: "Since Margaret Thatcher stopped teachers being paid extra money for coaching sports after school, all sporting activities have diminished on a competitive basis.
"Kids are now more obese and unfit than ever. All the prime young athletes we were ready to develop just aren't there, so we get a lesser quality of player.
"It has not just undermined our game, it has undermined many sports in this country and created an unhealthy child. Thatcher killed football, there is no doubt about it."
A recent report stated that one in three children in Britain are obese or overweight and that 32 per cent of children play less than an hour of sport a week.
In the last 20 years, around 5,000 school playing fields have been sold off or built over as England's men's national team have continually floundered in attempts to repeat their 1966 World Cup triumph.
Allardyce, a keen student of sporting education, continued: "Look at how little kids do to what I did. I was a 200 metres runner, a 4x400m relay runner and a triple jumper.
"I was a batsman in cricket, a freestyler in swimming and swam for the town. I did the pommel horse in gymnastics and I was really good on the trampoline, as well as being a footballer.
"Kids don't do any of that now. All of that sporting activity allowed me to play in the top division in this country."
Allardyce, who recently took over at West Ham, maintains the consequences of Thatcher's policies now mean clubs are having to sign up children at increasingly young ages to ensure they have opportunities to flourish.
"This was a working-class game but it's only at private schools where the children get the sports opportunities I had - and even then a lot of them don't play football, it's mainly rugby," said the ex-Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers boss.
"Despite putting in place all sorts of advanced academy systems at clubs we are only producing half the players the school system used to."
The FA estimates it takes 10,000 hours of training and education from the age of about seven or eight to be able to be good enough to play professional football - accepting a child has the talent to begin with.
Allardyce added: "Even a club like Manchester United can only provide 4,000 hours at the moment. It's hard to do more because parents have to drive their kids there four nights a week as well as on a Sunday.
"Until we wake up and realise how important school sport is to our kids we will never repair the damage," he concluded.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09072011/58/premier-league-allardyce-thatcher-killed-football.htmlAllardyce says that all UK sports, not just football, are suffering because of policies adopted by former Prime Minister Thatcher's Conservative governments throughout the 1980s.
In a scathing attack in The Sun newspaper on Saturday, Allardyce said: "Since Margaret Thatcher stopped teachers being paid extra money for coaching sports after school, all sporting activities have diminished on a competitive basis.
"Kids are now more obese and unfit than ever. All the prime young athletes we were ready to develop just aren't there, so we get a lesser quality of player.
"It has not just undermined our game, it has undermined many sports in this country and created an unhealthy child. Thatcher killed football, there is no doubt about it."
A recent report stated that one in three children in Britain are obese or overweight and that 32 per cent of children play less than an hour of sport a week.
In the last 20 years, around 5,000 school playing fields have been sold off or built over as England's men's national team have continually floundered in attempts to repeat their 1966 World Cup triumph.
Allardyce, a keen student of sporting education, continued: "Look at how little kids do to what I did. I was a 200 metres runner, a 4x400m relay runner and a triple jumper.
"I was a batsman in cricket, a freestyler in swimming and swam for the town. I did the pommel horse in gymnastics and I was really good on the trampoline, as well as being a footballer.
"Kids don't do any of that now. All of that sporting activity allowed me to play in the top division in this country."
Allardyce, who recently took over at West Ham, maintains the consequences of Thatcher's policies now mean clubs are having to sign up children at increasingly young ages to ensure they have opportunities to flourish.
"This was a working-class game but it's only at private schools where the children get the sports opportunities I had - and even then a lot of them don't play football, it's mainly rugby," said the ex-Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers boss.
"Despite putting in place all sorts of advanced academy systems at clubs we are only producing half the players the school system used to."
The FA estimates it takes 10,000 hours of training and education from the age of about seven or eight to be able to be good enough to play professional football - accepting a child has the talent to begin with.
Allardyce added: "Even a club like Manchester United can only provide 4,000 hours at the moment. It's hard to do more because parents have to drive their kids there four nights a week as well as on a Sunday.
"Until we wake up and realise how important school sport is to our kids we will never repair the damage," he concluded.
If it's Thatcher's fault, then it's ALSO Major's/Blair's/Browns fault as there's been 21 years since Thatcher left in which to reverse the trend.......
There is a lack of sporting culture in the country, part of which politicians have to take responsibility for (selling off playing fields, not investing in sports etc.) but more of the blame is with parents (not encouraging kids to get fit, driving them to school when they could walk/run/cycle etc.).
To try and tenuously blame one person is stupid and pathetic, so it's understandable that someone like Allardyce would say it
There is a lack of sporting culture in the country, part of which politicians have to take responsibility for (selling off playing fields, not investing in sports etc.) but more of the blame is with parents (not encouraging kids to get fit, driving them to school when they could walk/run/cycle etc.).
To try and tenuously blame one person is stupid and pathetic, so it's understandable that someone like Allardyce would say it
The first in a three-part series, to be followed by Eddie Izzard 'Ted Heath refused to pass laws encouraging kids to grow facial hair just look what happened to Lewis Hamilton and Cheryl Cole' and finally Fiona Phillips 'There was no choice I had to leave GMTV because John Major could not pronounce the word want correctly and always had curry on his breath'
Johnnytheboy said:
'Mr Allardyce also said, "As a higher rate taxpayer, I really wish I was paying the same rate of tax I would have been in 1979 before Thatcher came to power. Yay socialism."'
Nope, 'Big Sam' wants it both ways. Here he is moaning about the 50% tax rate.
http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/allardyce-s...
When I was at school we had a choice of rugby union or football in the winter and then there was track and field in the warmer climes. The playing fields contained two football pitches, a rugby pitch and a training area. All my mates played sport and stayed after school. Kids at the shcool now don't because the sports fields were sold.
My youngest was an England and British Colleges (under 19s) rugby player and went on to play semi-professional rugby at Worthing - level 4. He acknowledged that he would not have realised his potential if it hadn't been for his school's encouragement. They now don't have a rugy pitch.
The problem that many rugby clubs have now is that potential players turn up on training night at the age of 17 or 18 at best and the opportunity for them to go on to professional level has gone. There is a thriving youth rugby scene down our way but it depends on parents bringing their kids to the ground and the vast majority can't/won't do it. So we end up with the majority of rugby players coming from a restricted base.
Speaking to footballers the problem is not quite the same for them as kids can kick a ball about in the street. But even then they need coaching from an early age for them to go on to better things.
Sam Alladyce may or may not be an idiot. I don't know. What I do know is that Thatcher started the selling off of schools sports grounds. So he is correct in that. I also know that it has hurt 'my' sport of rugby. Rugby is a very posh sport, dominated by private schools. This harms the sport. If more kids played it in state schools I feel certain that we could dominate the world. But whilst it remains essentially an elite sport we will suffer. It is changing they say. Not that I can see it but I am assured it is.
I think it unlikely that the absence of school sports is the only reason so many kids are obese nowadays. Indeed, I would assume - although without evidence - that it is not the main reason. However, it has had a major influence on kids coming forward in rugby especially and football probably in this country.
The governments that followed Thatcher did nothing to remedy the situation, although the selling off slowed under some. My lad's school had to fight to retain its sports grounds and this is an ongoing battle. There is little doubt that it will lose them some time in the future. Once they have gone, they are gone forever.
Thatcher was one of the two greatest PMs this country has had since the war but that does not mean she did not make mistakes. I would suggest that this was one of her biggies. I didn't realise it at the time but I, like Sam, am certain now.
My youngest was an England and British Colleges (under 19s) rugby player and went on to play semi-professional rugby at Worthing - level 4. He acknowledged that he would not have realised his potential if it hadn't been for his school's encouragement. They now don't have a rugy pitch.
The problem that many rugby clubs have now is that potential players turn up on training night at the age of 17 or 18 at best and the opportunity for them to go on to professional level has gone. There is a thriving youth rugby scene down our way but it depends on parents bringing their kids to the ground and the vast majority can't/won't do it. So we end up with the majority of rugby players coming from a restricted base.
Speaking to footballers the problem is not quite the same for them as kids can kick a ball about in the street. But even then they need coaching from an early age for them to go on to better things.
Sam Alladyce may or may not be an idiot. I don't know. What I do know is that Thatcher started the selling off of schools sports grounds. So he is correct in that. I also know that it has hurt 'my' sport of rugby. Rugby is a very posh sport, dominated by private schools. This harms the sport. If more kids played it in state schools I feel certain that we could dominate the world. But whilst it remains essentially an elite sport we will suffer. It is changing they say. Not that I can see it but I am assured it is.
I think it unlikely that the absence of school sports is the only reason so many kids are obese nowadays. Indeed, I would assume - although without evidence - that it is not the main reason. However, it has had a major influence on kids coming forward in rugby especially and football probably in this country.
The governments that followed Thatcher did nothing to remedy the situation, although the selling off slowed under some. My lad's school had to fight to retain its sports grounds and this is an ongoing battle. There is little doubt that it will lose them some time in the future. Once they have gone, they are gone forever.
Thatcher was one of the two greatest PMs this country has had since the war but that does not mean she did not make mistakes. I would suggest that this was one of her biggies. I didn't realise it at the time but I, like Sam, am certain now.
You don't require a school to do sports, there are plenty of clubs out there where you will get PROPER training in the sport you desire, whether it be rugby, football, ice hockey, basket ball etc rather than the lower standards that most schools will offer.
If anything, I'd say that sports are more accessible for those that want to participate than they were 20years ago? There are certainly more varieties of sports and clubs to provide it.
If anything, I'd say that sports are more accessible for those that want to participate than they were 20years ago? There are certainly more varieties of sports and clubs to provide it.
Derek Smith said:
What I do know is that Thatcher started the selling off of schools sports grounds.
No.What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
Caulkhead said:
Derek Smith said:
What I do know is that Thatcher started the selling off of schools sports grounds.
No.What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
"Parents were astonished when a teacher with a loud-hailer announced all pupils could ‘opt out’ of the sprints if they wished and asked mothers and fathers to ‘respect their decision’."
Stand up and
Also, obviously, the school banned parents from taking photos on the day, in case they should culpably upload the pics to the internet where paedos would be queuing up to watch the egg and spoon race. Only they couldn't as it didn't happen - replaced by a balancing event so more saps could balance their inadequacy against the school's idiocy while other children sat on the grass supping fizzy drinks. So, what use are fields to these schools anyway except as a seating area to consume e-numbers.
That's a recent example in a long history of schools abandoning competitive sport and abrogating responsibility to teach kids about competition and how to cope with winning or losing, i.e. life basically.
So it's far from being a Thatcher thing.
Caulkhead said:
No.
What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
So are you saying that the selling off of school playing fields started by a change in the regulations in Thatcher's government? I didn't suggest she was putting them on ebay herself.What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
Derek Smith said:
Caulkhead said:
No.
What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
So are you saying that the selling off of school playing fields started by a change in the regulations in Thatcher's government? I didn't suggest she was putting them on ebay herself.What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
[Sarcasm/]
Derek Smith said:
Caulkhead said:
No.
What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
So are you saying that the selling off of school playing fields started by a change in the regulations in Thatcher's government? I didn't suggest she was putting them on ebay herself.What Margaret Thatcher did was to allow schools to choose whether they sold their playing fields off or kept them. If any were sold it was because the school chose to, not Thatcher.
Derek Smith said:
What I do know is that Thatcher started the selling off of schools sports grounds.
But when did this selling off begin? I left school in 1998 and at that point no school that I know of in my town had sold off any of their playing fields. However, sometime in the early - mid 2000s, I do know some schools sold off parts of their playing fields to build sports centres, libraries, etc. So what exactly did Labour do to prevent this or did they encourage it?The only thing I think blunted sports is what I experienced at school
1. Bone idle sports teachers who all too quickly change from something outside on the field to indoor quick cricket at merest chance of a bit of rain.
I dont remember doing much outside when I was at school, think we had one lesson on some athletics, a few ones for tennis, a tag rugby game and finally one for football. The majority were indoor... clubbed together with the other PE groups to do quick cricket in the sports hall which meant you got about 2 turns to bat, and there was so many of us in the sports hall you needn't really bother moving about whilst fielding. FFS little bit of rain and mud never hurt, and since it was separate sexes PE group whats wrong with doing proper rugby.
However, its not like I needed it.... was already putting in 40-50km a week at the pool when I swam for the local club.
Happily, competition was still alive at my school. Even at primary school competition was pretty massive.... Now you hear of some places where there are no winners....makes no sense to me, you need competition, competition is life.
As for sports like swimming... well in Primary school we used to have a period of going swimming every week, where they did those Kiora or rainbow swimming badges. As I already swam, I just had to do my own thing in a lane by myself. Once at secondary school, swimming completely disappeared off the list of sports. I think there was one chance in year 11 where they let the oldest students chose from a selection of different sports to try over a 4 week period. They had table tennis, trampolining, gymnastics, goKarting, swimming, 10-pin bowling etc.... only problem is, you are 15-16 and almost certainly too late to make it on to a high level when you suddenly discovered you liked or were good at one of those sports. Granted its not the same for everyone, I know numerous swimmers who are faster than I am who started out when they were 12-13, and 1 or 2 guys who got into proper training at 16.... but if you look at the guys winning the medals at the olympics, the truly great talents...they are there at 15-16 winning gold, breaking records. If you arently already into a sport, then you arent going to discover how good people are till its almost too late.
1. Bone idle sports teachers who all too quickly change from something outside on the field to indoor quick cricket at merest chance of a bit of rain.
I dont remember doing much outside when I was at school, think we had one lesson on some athletics, a few ones for tennis, a tag rugby game and finally one for football. The majority were indoor... clubbed together with the other PE groups to do quick cricket in the sports hall which meant you got about 2 turns to bat, and there was so many of us in the sports hall you needn't really bother moving about whilst fielding. FFS little bit of rain and mud never hurt, and since it was separate sexes PE group whats wrong with doing proper rugby.
However, its not like I needed it.... was already putting in 40-50km a week at the pool when I swam for the local club.
Happily, competition was still alive at my school. Even at primary school competition was pretty massive.... Now you hear of some places where there are no winners....makes no sense to me, you need competition, competition is life.
As for sports like swimming... well in Primary school we used to have a period of going swimming every week, where they did those Kiora or rainbow swimming badges. As I already swam, I just had to do my own thing in a lane by myself. Once at secondary school, swimming completely disappeared off the list of sports. I think there was one chance in year 11 where they let the oldest students chose from a selection of different sports to try over a 4 week period. They had table tennis, trampolining, gymnastics, goKarting, swimming, 10-pin bowling etc.... only problem is, you are 15-16 and almost certainly too late to make it on to a high level when you suddenly discovered you liked or were good at one of those sports. Granted its not the same for everyone, I know numerous swimmers who are faster than I am who started out when they were 12-13, and 1 or 2 guys who got into proper training at 16.... but if you look at the guys winning the medals at the olympics, the truly great talents...they are there at 15-16 winning gold, breaking records. If you arently already into a sport, then you arent going to discover how good people are till its almost too late.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Saturday 9th July 23:44
Otispunkmeyer said:
1. Bone idle sports teachers
Not my experience with my younger son.His school did play competative rugby. My son is a bit of an athlete and one teacher - I'll give him a well-deserved name-check so anyone in the Brighton area can say: Oh, yeah. I've heard of him, Dowie Vaughan) recognised his potential. He encouraged his liking for rugby and then my lad went on to play county and colleges.
The main problem I found was in the selection process for the centres of excellence. That's too big a subject to go into on a thread but one of the major problems is the infrastructure.
I was standing with my lad's then girlfriend when one of his team touched-down in his own area. While we all waited for the game to restart - the ref was knackered - she asked if you could 'score an own goal' in rugby. One of the committee said: No, dear. Only the selectors can do that.
And that's very true.
Rugby has problems. Whilst the really good ones can be picked and encouraged - Jordan Turner-Hall played in my lad's teams and was identified but that meant going to a private school - those who develop a little later seem to be abandoned. But the main problem, as I said earlier, is the fact that youngsters start playing too late.
There is little doubt that much of the attraction of rugby union is in the fact that it is not a 'popular' sport. If you start screaming obscenities from the line then either a club official or member will put you right or the ref will tell you to clear off, and everyone will chear.
I told two lads, spectating players, to stop having a go at the ref, who was struggling it has to be admitted but he was trying his best. In the clubhouse later they came up to me an apologised. I thanked them but asked if they should consider apologising to the ref. They said they already had. One wonders if it became the sport of choice for youngsters whether the attitudes would remain.
I think sport has much to teach kids - and adults come to that. The realisation that there's always someone better, the requirement for teamwork, everyone has off days, what happens on the pitch, no pain etc is excellent training for life and isn't that what schools should be about?
Maybe Thatcher can wash her hands of the repercussions of the sell-off. After all, all she did was tell councils they could. It came at the same time as a bit of a campaign against competatitive sports unfortunately.
My lad's old rugby club have an all-weather training pitch. It's main, although unplanned, benefit has been that parents are willing to bring their kids to training knowing that they won't have to be hosed down before getting back in their cars. Or rather 4x4s. So there is a strong kids rugby scene. Also the fact that it is touch means that their kids can normally walk to the car park.
Rugby teaches you that a little bit of pain never hurt anyone. It is a shame that many kids won't see the benefits.
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