Police 'barely literate'
Discussion
Hardly a revelation - for as long as I can remember the Police has given social and legal power to individuals least likely to be able to exercise it mindfully - but, for me, the article is noteworthy because it's another step against the tide of being afraid publically to tell the truth because it might offend someone.
Source
Source
The question is: what do you expect?
In a free market the salary would have to increase until there were enough recruits of a suitable quality to fill the vacancies. But the government wants to cut costs so salaries are cut regardless of the fact that you just can't get the staff.
The population gets the police service it leaders feel is the lowest they can supply without the public moaning.
So we take this lad, who has no qualifications, and train him to a limited extent then put him in a car to battle against low lifes. Everyone is happy because he can cope with the dregs. Then, when some brief takes him apart in the box, the government can say it was down to poor management.
I've run remedial classes in English language for recruits and probationers. That was when I was a sergeant and the situation has deteriorated since.
These are the best they can get given the restrictions.
In a free market the salary would have to increase until there were enough recruits of a suitable quality to fill the vacancies. But the government wants to cut costs so salaries are cut regardless of the fact that you just can't get the staff.
The population gets the police service it leaders feel is the lowest they can supply without the public moaning.
So we take this lad, who has no qualifications, and train him to a limited extent then put him in a car to battle against low lifes. Everyone is happy because he can cope with the dregs. Then, when some brief takes him apart in the box, the government can say it was down to poor management.
I've run remedial classes in English language for recruits and probationers. That was when I was a sergeant and the situation has deteriorated since.
These are the best they can get given the restrictions.
I'd rather have a police officer capable of taking down an average chav on their own and pin them to the ground, handcuff them and place them in the back seat of a police car without any hassle or endangering themselves...rather than requiring 4 officers to do the same thing. If an officer who can do that keeps getting "there" and "their" mixed up, couldn't give a s
t.
Unfortunately, looking at quite a few of the cop shows on TV these days, it takes 4 officers to take down 1 person and even then it's a massive struggle.
t.Unfortunately, looking at quite a few of the cop shows on TV these days, it takes 4 officers to take down 1 person and even then it's a massive struggle.
I disagree. Police are paid well enough. I think people are put off applying because of what the organisation has become.
IMO, suggesting, today, that you want to join the Police will attract more derision than suggesting you want to go and work in <insert your choice of mindless McJob here>.
IMO, suggesting, today, that you want to join the Police will attract more derision than suggesting you want to go and work in <insert your choice of mindless McJob here>.
V8mate said:
I disagree. Police are paid well enough. I think people are put off applying because of what the organisation has become.
IMO, suggesting, today, that you want to join the Police will attract more derision than suggesting you want to go and work in <insert your choice of mindless McJob here>.
I don't know where you exist. But that's not the attitude of anybody I know of apart from probably the sort of people inhabiting Dale Farm or who were involved in looting recently.IMO, suggesting, today, that you want to join the Police will attract more derision than suggesting you want to go and work in <insert your choice of mindless McJob here>.
As for being "barely literate". That is/was the standard quality of person appearing out of the state education system.
Regiment said:
I'd rather have a police officer capable of taking down an average chav on their own and pin them to the ground, handcuff them and place them in the back seat of a police car without any hassle or endangering themselves...rather than requiring 4 officers to do the same thing. If an officer who can do that keeps getting "there" and "their" mixed up, couldn't give a st.
Unfortunately, looking at quite a few of the cop shows on TV these days, it takes 4 officers to take down 1 person and even then it's a massive struggle.
Agree with this, it's slightly concerning that a scraggy chav causes such a struggle, however does it require 4+ officers due to the techniques they use? Or is it down to inadequate fitness tests for applicants/existing officers?t.Unfortunately, looking at quite a few of the cop shows on TV these days, it takes 4 officers to take down 1 person and even then it's a massive struggle.
P.S I think that the media should be a bit more concerned about literacy in schools before attacking the police
V8mate said:
In fairness, it was a crap job for people who couldn't get a proper job back in the 80s!
It was dreadfully paid in the middle 70s. When I joined if I'd have had one more child I'd have been on supplementary benefit. Then the wages went up. It was Thatcher. She was a bit switched on and knew that there would be public order problems and opted for a strong police force to maintain the peace. Once the miners had been put in their place then so were the police with cuts to pay and conditions from then on.Police in the 70s had a significant source of recruits from the army. I joined with two ex-squaddies and worked in a unit where something like 40% were ex-military.
The problem is that the restrictions placed on recruitment means that the lower limits are lower to ensure that everyone gets an equal chance.
Further, whilst there was a period when the police went for graduates these were all seen as promotion material. No one of ability wanted to work the streets. Not for the wages being offered. So you get what you pay for.
I remember a trainee brief moaning about the pay that police recruits got in their third year. Firstly, it was the maximum they could get so most got much less. But my office manager, never frightened of putting lawyers in their place, said to her: 'Shame you didn't know about it before you did your degree. You could be a sergeant officer by now.'
The moral is clear. No one wants to be a custody officer as the role is one of the most difficult for any 'field' rank. And the pay is not commensurate with the responsibility and required knowledge and experience.
I think politicians of all flavours have been cumulatively responsible for the state of organisations like the Police. The creep of Health & Safety, 'rights', political correctness and the evolution of a social underclass rather than valuable working class have all eroded the scope and effectiveness of the service (with a small 's').
Not that any of us would necessarily appreciate a return to the 'hey-day' of Greater Manchester Police, for example.
I would blame the EU; but we don;t seem to have seen a similar decay in countries like Germany.
So...maybe it was The Beatles?
Not that any of us would necessarily appreciate a return to the 'hey-day' of Greater Manchester Police, for example.
I would blame the EU; but we don;t seem to have seen a similar decay in countries like Germany.
So...maybe it was The Beatles?
Happy82 said:
Regiment said:
I'd rather have a police officer capable of taking down an average chav on their own and pin them to the ground, handcuff them and place them in the back seat of a police car without any hassle or endangering themselves...rather than requiring 4 officers to do the same thing. If an officer who can do that keeps getting "there" and "their" mixed up, couldn't give a st.
Unfortunately, looking at quite a few of the cop shows on TV these days, it takes 4 officers to take down 1 person and even then it's a massive struggle.
Agree with this, it's slightly concerning that a scraggy chav causes such a struggle, however does it require 4+ officers due to the techniques they use? Or is it down to inadequate fitness tests for applicants/existing officers?t.Unfortunately, looking at quite a few of the cop shows on TV these days, it takes 4 officers to take down 1 person and even then it's a massive struggle.
P.S I think that the media should be a bit more concerned about literacy in schools before attacking the police
If you want it to be a 1 on 1, expect lots of sick payouts, and lots of compensation claims when detained persons sue after being brought into custody bruised and blue, because a personal scrap-of-attrition was the only way to get cuffs on a resisting individual.
Heskey said:
To apply technique to someone hell bent on trying to escape you, you need more than one person - The thinking being to place someone under arrest safely and without injury.
If you want it to be a 1 on 1, expect lots of sick payouts, and lots of compensation claims when detained persons sue after being brought into custody bruised and blue, because a personal scrap-of-attrition was the only way to get cuffs on a resisting individual.
Wouldn't Fu sand body bags be cheaper?If you want it to be a 1 on 1, expect lots of sick payouts, and lots of compensation claims when detained persons sue after being brought into custody bruised and blue, because a personal scrap-of-attrition was the only way to get cuffs on a resisting individual.
More officers equals less chance of injury to the offender. It's about restraint not taking someone out.
Anyone who even starts with the "it took more than one of them" clearly hasn't a single clue about the dynamics and aim of arrest. It's not a fight. It's restraint and ccontrol.
Ideal is one person per body part.
Most cases there are two of you.
Ive never lost a prisoner and I've very often been alone. On one ocassion having to restrain a violent schizophrenic alone until the next shift came on duty to relieve me.
Anyone who even starts with the "it took more than one of them" clearly hasn't a single clue about the dynamics and aim of arrest. It's not a fight. It's restraint and ccontrol.
Ideal is one person per body part.
Most cases there are two of you.
Ive never lost a prisoner and I've very often been alone. On one ocassion having to restrain a violent schizophrenic alone until the next shift came on duty to relieve me.
I'm a serving PC and I cringe frequently at some of the reports written by colleagues because of poor spelling, grammar and general lack of skill in writing.
However, this is the case in every profession and comes down to an individual's education, talent and willingness to learn.
Where police officers differ from a lot of people is the courage is takes to do the job. Being faced with violence can be a daily occurrence. How many people do you know who are willing to do that? We work outside in all weathers, often in the middle of the night, deal with the dead, dying and maimed and all the other worst bits of society out there.
That's not a complaint, because that's what we've signed up to do, but tinkering with the entrance requirements could see a lot of people who'd make good coppers fail to get in because they're not as good as writing as someone else who knows his way around the English language but who may lack the maturity and personality to do the job well.
Would you rather have someone who can tackle an armed thug or use an apostrophe correctly? Ideally, of course, you'd have both but given one or the other I know which I'd choose.
However, this is the case in every profession and comes down to an individual's education, talent and willingness to learn.
Where police officers differ from a lot of people is the courage is takes to do the job. Being faced with violence can be a daily occurrence. How many people do you know who are willing to do that? We work outside in all weathers, often in the middle of the night, deal with the dead, dying and maimed and all the other worst bits of society out there.
That's not a complaint, because that's what we've signed up to do, but tinkering with the entrance requirements could see a lot of people who'd make good coppers fail to get in because they're not as good as writing as someone else who knows his way around the English language but who may lack the maturity and personality to do the job well.
Would you rather have someone who can tackle an armed thug or use an apostrophe correctly? Ideally, of course, you'd have both but given one or the other I know which I'd choose.
jamesson said:
I'm a serving PC and I cringe frequently at some of the reports written by colleagues because of poor spelling, grammar and general lack of skill in writing.
However, this is the case in every profession and comes down to an individual's education, talent and willingness to learn.
Where police officers differ from a lot of people is the courage is takes to do the job. Being faced with violence can be a daily occurrence. How many people do you know who are willing to do that? We work outside in all weathers, often in the middle of the night, deal with the dead, dying and maimed and all the other worst bits of society out there.
That's not a complaint, because that's what we've signed up to do, but tinkering with the entrance requirements could see a lot of people who'd make good coppers fail to get in because they're not as good as writing as someone else who knows his way around the English language but who may lack the maturity and personality to do the job well.
Would you rather have someone who can tackle an armed thug or use an apostrophe correctly? Ideally, of course, you'd have both but given one or the other I know which I'd choose.
Good points well made. However, does it have to be either or? If they paid enough money then the street wise graduate might want to get involved rather than take a soft option.However, this is the case in every profession and comes down to an individual's education, talent and willingness to learn.
Where police officers differ from a lot of people is the courage is takes to do the job. Being faced with violence can be a daily occurrence. How many people do you know who are willing to do that? We work outside in all weathers, often in the middle of the night, deal with the dead, dying and maimed and all the other worst bits of society out there.
That's not a complaint, because that's what we've signed up to do, but tinkering with the entrance requirements could see a lot of people who'd make good coppers fail to get in because they're not as good as writing as someone else who knows his way around the English language but who may lack the maturity and personality to do the job well.
Would you rather have someone who can tackle an armed thug or use an apostrophe correctly? Ideally, of course, you'd have both but given one or the other I know which I'd choose.
With files depending so much on reports and statements, literacy is as much an essential as bravery. You know that it is no good arreting the offender without being able to prove he committed the offence.
Moving on slightly, we nicked two lads who entered a quality coach taking some Americans to a posh do in the Tower of London. We had to take loser statements from them and the surprise to me was that so many were barely literate. Most of the men ran businesses back in America but had to get their wives to read the statement back to them. 'Gee, I don't read too good' was said to me twice and I only took three statements.
There is a wonderful short story, wonderfully written, about a verger's assistant who was sacked from his job because he was illiterate despite it not being a problem. Instead of taking the bus home he walked back and tried to buy tobacco for his pipe en route but there were no shops.
When he got his lump sum from the church he set up a stand selling tobacco right in the middle of the area and gradually expanded until he owned a number of shops. When his accountant discovered he could not read and was innumerate the chap said: 'Here you are, a millionaire. Just think what you would be doing if you could read and write.'
So as you say, if it is not required for the post, why the criticism.
The fact of the matter is, skills in reading and writing are essential for the job. There's always adjustments and new laws being made, and statement writing is a big part of the job regardless of the role you are in. Once you look away from the frontline response/neighbourhood officers, it is essential that officers in specialist departments have good grammar to be able to produce the files necessary to put bigger fish away. Thats not including the likes of RIPA applications, Operational orders etc.
The argument about 1 officer vs 1 customer doesn't stand up either because as it has been mentioned, its not about going toe to toe with these people, else the officer would be the one on the stand and not the reprobate who he punched square in the face before he was locked up.
The argument about 1 officer vs 1 customer doesn't stand up either because as it has been mentioned, its not about going toe to toe with these people, else the officer would be the one on the stand and not the reprobate who he punched square in the face before he was locked up.
Derek Smith said:
There is a wonderful short story, wonderfully written, about a verger's assistant who was sacked from his job because he was illiterate despite it not being a problem. Instead of taking the bus home he walked back and tried to buy tobacco for his pipe en route but there were no shops.
When he got his lump sum from the church he set up a stand selling tobacco right in the middle of the area and gradually expanded until he owned a number of shops. When his accountant discovered he could not read and was innumerate the chap said: 'Here you are, a millionaire. Just think what you would be doing if you could read and write.'
Selling a controlled substance from non-permanent premises without a licence? Someone should call the Police...When he got his lump sum from the church he set up a stand selling tobacco right in the middle of the area and gradually expanded until he owned a number of shops. When his accountant discovered he could not read and was innumerate the chap said: 'Here you are, a millionaire. Just think what you would be doing if you could read and write.'
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff