Hydrogen powered cars - emission free....
Discussion
Well seeing this in the news made me think.
1. It's effectively limitless
2. There is no damaging output apart from H2O
Sounds great.
So why are we not generating power from hydrogen ? No brainer what am I missing.
Surely if it's so amazing for transportation why wouldn't it provide electricity generation and at a stroke solve our energy crisis costly energy and totally clean energy.
1. It's effectively limitless
2. There is no damaging output apart from H2O
Sounds great.
So why are we not generating power from hydrogen ? No brainer what am I missing.
Surely if it's so amazing for transportation why wouldn't it provide electricity generation and at a stroke solve our energy crisis costly energy and totally clean energy.
Where do we get the hydrogen from?
Copious quantities of electricity are needed to make it.
And as our current generating capacity is approaching its limits, and a lot of the old plants (nuclear especially) are getting close to the end of their lives, there's something of a hole in the supply/demand equation.
Essentially, hydrogen is a storage medium, a glorified battery. A means of getting electricity from the power station to your car without cables.
Copious quantities of electricity are needed to make it.
And as our current generating capacity is approaching its limits, and a lot of the old plants (nuclear especially) are getting close to the end of their lives, there's something of a hole in the supply/demand equation.
Essentially, hydrogen is a storage medium, a glorified battery. A means of getting electricity from the power station to your car without cables.
You have to get the hydrogen from somewhere. Either you get it from the atmosphere, where there isn't really enough for large scale extraction; or you get it from water by electrolysis. Since that process is not 100% efficient you lose energy in doing so. You also need to get the power to run the electrolysis plant from somewhere else.
Hydrogen might well be a viable fuel for road transport in the future, but only if an alternate electricity generating source is found that can provide lots of energy cheaply. Nuclear fusion is the only thing on the horizon that might fit that bill.
Hydrogen might well be a viable fuel for road transport in the future, but only if an alternate electricity generating source is found that can provide lots of energy cheaply. Nuclear fusion is the only thing on the horizon that might fit that bill.
As I understand it the Hydrogen technology is very complex to actually use.
If it can be harnessed it will be incredibly valuable.
But I have never found out how this works.
Have you got the working process described in some detail?
If so I would be most interested to see the detail.
As an aside I have spent some time building and testing electric cars mainly through Staffordshire University.
My conclusion was that the Electric car is still hampered by the Battery and weight downsides see below:
A maximum range of 100 miles at best: high performance reduces this.
Recharge times are overnight or boost but too much boost reduces battery life
Replacement cost every three years of batteries is prohibitive.
Generation of recharge power creates as much Eco downside as Oil use.
In short I cannot see a real alternative in Electric cars except possibly in urban short journey use.
If you have details of a workable Hydrogen car this is a major step forward.
As yet I have not seen such details.
If it can be harnessed it will be incredibly valuable.
But I have never found out how this works.
Have you got the working process described in some detail?
If so I would be most interested to see the detail.
As an aside I have spent some time building and testing electric cars mainly through Staffordshire University.
My conclusion was that the Electric car is still hampered by the Battery and weight downsides see below:
A maximum range of 100 miles at best: high performance reduces this.
Recharge times are overnight or boost but too much boost reduces battery life
Replacement cost every three years of batteries is prohibitive.
Generation of recharge power creates as much Eco downside as Oil use.
In short I cannot see a real alternative in Electric cars except possibly in urban short journey use.
If you have details of a workable Hydrogen car this is a major step forward.
As yet I have not seen such details.
A certain amount of the water produced by the combustion of hydrogen in air will be in the form of water vapour.
If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
nelly1 said:
A certain amount of the water produced by the combustion of hydrogen in air will be in the form of water vapour.
If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
It's self regulating though, so it's not really a problem apparently.If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
Super Slo Mo said:
nelly1 said:
A certain amount of the water produced by the combustion of hydrogen in air will be in the form of water vapour.
If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
It's self regulating though, so it's not really a problem apparently.If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
nelly1 said:
Super Slo Mo said:
nelly1 said:
A certain amount of the water produced by the combustion of hydrogen in air will be in the form of water vapour.
If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
It's self regulating though, so it's not really a problem apparently.If everyone in the world suddenly starts using hydrogen as a fuel, that means a lot of water vapour.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas.
Can you see where this could end up?
tank slapper said:
You have to get the hydrogen from somewhere. Either you get it from the atmosphere, where there isn't really enough for large scale extraction; or you get it from water by electrolysis. Since that process is not 100% efficient you lose energy in doing so. You also need to get the power to run the electrolysis plant from somewhere else.
Hydrogen might well be a viable fuel for road transport in the future, but only if an alternate electricity generating source is found that can provide lots of energy cheaply. Nuclear fusion is the only thing on the horizon that might fit that bill.
So link all the wind turbines to hydrogen generating plant (and disconnect from the Grid)then let them get on with generating as much as they like with no subsidies, or back-handers because 'it's too windy'. Then get on with building some leccy generating plant which will work 365 days a year whatever the weather.Hydrogen might well be a viable fuel for road transport in the future, but only if an alternate electricity generating source is found that can provide lots of energy cheaply. Nuclear fusion is the only thing on the horizon that might fit that bill.
Dogwatch said:
So link all the wind turbines to hydrogen generating plant (and disconnect from the Grid)then let them get on with generating as much as they like with no subsidies, or back-handers because 'it's too windy'. Then get on with building some leccy generating plant which will work 365 days a year whatever the weather.
Indeed. Of course no-one would do that because wind turbines are massively more expensive than other forms of power. They would build a coal fired power station and have a reliable source of hydrogen instead.Hydrogen is nothing more then a energy carrier and i'm not convinced as it being a very good one at that due to its being a bit explodey and leaky in nature. You can't compare hydrogen to oil as it would fur fill a role far closer to a battery.
Steffan said:
As an aside I have spent some time building and testing electric cars mainly through Staffordshire University.
My conclusion was that the Electric car is still hampered by the Battery and weight downsides see below:
A maximum range of 100 miles at best: high performance reduces this.
Recharge times are overnight or boost but too much boost reduces battery life
Replacement cost every three years of batteries is prohibitive.
Generation of recharge power creates as much Eco downside as Oil use.
In short I cannot see a real alternative in Electric cars except possibly in urban short journey use.
Which is where a lot of cars spend 90% of their timeMy conclusion was that the Electric car is still hampered by the Battery and weight downsides see below:
A maximum range of 100 miles at best: high performance reduces this.
Recharge times are overnight or boost but too much boost reduces battery life
Replacement cost every three years of batteries is prohibitive.
Generation of recharge power creates as much Eco downside as Oil use.
In short I cannot see a real alternative in Electric cars except possibly in urban short journey use.
Tycho said:
Why can't the African nations who have nothing apart from shed loads of sunshine build massive solar farms which create the electricity to make hydrogen? If done close to the coast then you can create it from seawater and ship it out easily.
Add in the costs of bribes, ransoms and thieved panels... it would be cheaper to do it in Scotland.Jim the Sunderer said:
Tycho said:
Why can't the African nations who have nothing apart from shed loads of sunshine build massive solar farms which create the electricity to make hydrogen? If done close to the coast then you can create it from seawater and ship it out easily.
Add in the costs of bribes, ransoms and thieved panels... it would be cheaper to do it in Scotland.These do not include sunshine unlike Africa.
MiniMan64 said:
I believe storing it is a bit of a b
h.
This. It has to be stored at very high pressure, so the whole infrastructure (up to and including the car's tank) has to be extremely well engineered to cope with it. The head of Skoda has gone on record to say that his company will never build a hydrogen car while he's in charge as he doesn't want to be remembered for any storage-related fatalities. h.Sure this has been mooted before, but in the same way we currently have a huge grid of oil and gas pipelines in the North Sea, what about a few whacking great geothermal plants in Iceland doing nothing but electrolysis? Do the same thing using solar plants in southern Europe and join the two into a pan-european hydrogen grid?
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