Discussion
ked really. 
I think most debt is between the so called richest countries rather than the poorest.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
cal72 said:
I think most debt is between the so called richest countries rather than the poorest.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
f--k me that is scary stuff . sorry still don,t get it every country is in debt. So who to . And if we are in debt to a richer country . Eg china , But they are in debt too .Just seems to go round in a circle.http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
hollydog said:
f--k me that is scary stuff . sorry still don,t get it every country is in debt. So who to . And if we are in debt to a richer country . Eg china , But they are in debt too .Just seems to go round in a circle.
Take the UK government as an example:It's borrowing (i.e. government bonds ("gilts")) is mainly bought by UK institutions such as Pension funds, banks and Insurance companies. Some of this debt is bought by overseas investors e.g. German investors.
Likewise, German government debt ("Bunds") is similar bought by German institutions and by other investors (including UK Insurance companies and pension funds).
Therefore you can say that Germany is in debt to the UK and the UK is in debt to Germany, but you can't cancel those debts, as there are to different parties (the governments hold the liabilities and the investors hold the assets).
Sidicks
Its all just numbers on pieces of paper if you ask me, nobody is ever going to pay back these debts. Take the UK for example still borrowing hundreds of billions every month aren't we from someone to spend on something how many years would it take to pay back even one months borrowing? The figures are too high for most people to even comprehend never mind get worried about.
hollydog said:
cal72 said:
I think most debt is between the so called richest countries rather than the poorest.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
f--k me that is scary stuff . sorry still don,t get it every country is in debt. So who to . And if we are in debt to a richer country . Eg china , But they are in debt too .Just seems to go round in a circle.http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
http://www.budget.gov.hk/2011/eng/budget19.html
jimothy said:
How accurate is it though? It claims HK is in debt, but it has large reserves....
http://www.budget.gov.hk/2011/eng/budget19.html
It can still have debt outstanding, in the same way that I can have a mortgage but still have some assets in a bank account!!http://www.budget.gov.hk/2011/eng/budget19.html
Sidicks
groak said:
Scrapping the debt/debt forgiveness isn't so different for countries as it is for individuals. You write it off, forget it and move on. Obviously that's the best thing to do. Just takes a bit of time to sink in, that's all.
Er, right.As an individual, I might write off £20, but I'm not going to be able to write off £20,000. How is this any different for countries?
hollydog said:
Theres something badly wrong in the world . Said it before time for a change . But just what .
Simply, you stop all these gamblers playing with Invisible Money.Futures markets, speculation, etc...should be stopped. They don't add anything, and they make the markets unstable.
The world never had these problems when the only things that could be traded were tangible assets!
Unless I'm wrong and speculation on markets actually does have a benefit to the worlds economies, and not just those taking part in it, in which case....can someone explain to me what those benefits are?
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Simply, you stop all these gamblers playing with Invisible Money.
Futures markets, speculation, etc...should be stopped. They don't add anything, and they make the markets unstable.
The world never had these problems when the only things that could be traded were tangible assets!
Unless I'm wrong and speculation on markets actually does have a benefit to the worlds economies, and not just those taking part in it, in which case....can someone explain to me what those benefits are?
Futures markets can be used to significantly reduce risk, not just to speculate...Futures markets, speculation, etc...should be stopped. They don't add anything, and they make the markets unstable.
The world never had these problems when the only things that could be traded were tangible assets!
Unless I'm wrong and speculation on markets actually does have a benefit to the worlds economies, and not just those taking part in it, in which case....can someone explain to me what those benefits are?
Kermit power said:
Er, right.
As an individual, I might write off £20, but I'm not going to be able to write off £20,000. How is this any different for countries?
I'll try the brief and simplified explanation. You lent me £20k. You weren't forced to, you decided to. You lent it because you thought you'd make a profit on the loan. You never thought for a moment that I wouldn't be able to pay you back. You're not so stupid that you lent it AND thought you wouldn't get it back. So either you made a bad decision (which is really down to you), or else something's come up/things have changed etc etc etc. But one way or another I can't pay you. Can't pay you 20 quid, never mind 20 grand. Your 20k is history. As an individual, I might write off £20, but I'm not going to be able to write off £20,000. How is this any different for countries?
There are a few things you can try. You can take me to court. And you may even get a payment order. But I won't be able to satisfy it, because I'm potted and will just have to go bankrupt. You can even sell the debt to gangsters for 50% if you can't face the fact that the bad decision to lend it was 100% yours, even though you're now only too well aware that the buck stops with you. And the gangsters can cut my thumbs off, or even kill me. There isn't 20p never mind 20 grand. And all the nastiness in the world isn't going to change that.
You are getting jack. Nada. Centre of a doughnut. NOTHING. Your loan's GONE.
So you can end the matter the nasty way (court, collectors, bullies etc) or the nice way. You can say to me "It wasn't a great idea to lend you that 20k, but goodness knows neither of us foresaw it coming to THIS. Well it has come to this. The money's gone. So because I am a nice guy, I'm going to leave it like this: One day you might win the lottery or whatever and be able to make this good. But until that day, we'll leave it at that's one you owe me, and we'll forget it for now and move on. How's that?"
Well? Am I grateful? Relieved? In awe of your generosity? Thankful to have such a big-hearted friend? There for you if you need me in any way in the future? etc etc
Y'see if the loan isn't getting repaid (which it isn't) then why end the thing badly? I come up against this all the time. I'm amazed so many people think forgiving the debt is such a bad answer, especially the ones who've tried getting nasty and end up with the same nothing back. We've ALL been there. The debt we lent/investment we made won't be coming back. You forgive it and move on. Surprising how quickly it becomes forgotten.
The things that constantly amazes me with these "lets just write it off" geniuses is that they seem to think no one will lose. If you have a pension YOU will lose. If you have life assurance, or any sort of other term assurance, YOU will lose. If you own equity in any companies in the above industries YOU will lose. Where do you think that would leave the UK (and most other developed countries)?
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