UK economy: Are there any alternative to cuts?
Discussion
I'll freely admit I'm pretty naive when it comes to both politics and economics, so maybe someone can help me out here...
As I understand it, we have less money in the economy at the moment, which means we have to cut our outgoings. On a governmental level this means primarily public services. It's sad, but - as far as I can see - it's true.
Is there really a workable alternative or do we just have to tighten our collective belts while the trade union types wander around burning effigies of some of some senile old woman who left office before most of them even entered work?
As I understand it, we have less money in the economy at the moment, which means we have to cut our outgoings. On a governmental level this means primarily public services. It's sad, but - as far as I can see - it's true.
Is there really a workable alternative or do we just have to tighten our collective belts while the trade union types wander around burning effigies of some of some senile old woman who left office before most of them even entered work?
There is no option but to have big cuts - it's not a question of spending a few billion more than we have every year we are over-spending by about 15% of the nation's earnings.
If you earn (after tax) £50k pa, can you really afford to put £7.5k on your credit card every year?
http://www.debtbombshell.com/britains-budget-defic...
If you earn (after tax) £50k pa, can you really afford to put £7.5k on your credit card every year?
http://www.debtbombshell.com/britains-budget-defic...
The only solution I can think of is that they voluntarily stop wasting money. Have a look at that thread on what councils have been wasting money on. A local council has paid £1 trillion (possibly a lie) for a new executive suite or whatever they call it. I asked the person who informed me of their discovery if this expense was necessary and just got a shrug back.
I think there's a mentality of needing to use up their budget every year. Now whether this happens in the private sector or not is irrelevant as it would only happen if the business were thriving. The "business" is dying a death.
I think there's a mentality of needing to use up their budget every year. Now whether this happens in the private sector or not is irrelevant as it would only happen if the business were thriving. The "business" is dying a death.
The NHS.
There ought to be two clear and distinct discussions with regard to the NHS:
There ought to be two clear and distinct discussions with regard to the NHS:
- How well it serves its customers (and how many it's is failing or accidentally killing etc.)
- How in the name of Jeevus it is possibly sensible for a tiny island like the UK to be host to the world's 3rd/4th largest employer? This needs to be tackled because clearly, obviously, there is way too much overhead. there is no possible discussion on that and so we should see how to pare it down. And fast.
More action is needed, the present slowing of the rate of growth of spending is happening because Call Me Dave has no cojones and is running scared of the Guardian headline writers while polishing Clegg's starfish. There's room between the current position and killing off recovery for some more medicine that Sick Man UK needs i.e. transfer of wealth from the public sector to the private sector. Clueless vested interest Union dinosaurs would whine a lot. Tough s
t.
t.turbobloke said:
More action is needed, the present slowing of the rate of growth of spending is happening because Call Me Dave has no cojones and is running scared of the Guardian headline writers while polishing Clegg's starfish. There's room between the current position and killing off recovery for some more medicine that Sick Man UK needs i.e. transfer of wealth from the public sector to the private sector. Clueless vested interest Union dinosaurs would whine a lot. Tough st.
I always remember bad headlines for Thatchers government and policies (I unwittingly fell for them too, at the time, I hated her - although I am not sure why...). that never stopped her doing what she thought was right for the country (maybe the last PM to think in such a way)t.Perhaps that is why now she is regarded (irrespective of what the left try and force us to believe) as one of the greats.
Whether we like it or not, we are in desperate need of a leader with her will and convictions - but there is no-one in power not even in the same universe - they all seem to be very self-serving and very 'clique'. Depressing.
Slightly O/T, but I do sometimes wonder if a conservative government could ever really succeed in this country any more.
The trade unions and a large part of the press seem determined to brainwash everyone, to the point where it's impossible for them to do anything without being demonised for it. I remember walking through the High Street a few days after the coalition had taken power and there was a pre-planned demonstration about the local hospital (arranged before the election, when we had Labour in power) complaining about 'Conservative cuts'.
I'm not saying they haven't balls things up (no pun intended) but they hadn't even had the name tags changed round on the desks in Westminster by that point and the left wingers were already on the war path. It seems that we have a very powerful lobby devoted to excusing the faults of any notionally socialist government and jumping on the challenges faced by any others. With such an influential PR force against them - from affluent socially aware Guardian readers down to the massed ranks of public sector workers spoon-fed by the unions - does that mean any Conservative government is now doomed to failure?
The trade unions and a large part of the press seem determined to brainwash everyone, to the point where it's impossible for them to do anything without being demonised for it. I remember walking through the High Street a few days after the coalition had taken power and there was a pre-planned demonstration about the local hospital (arranged before the election, when we had Labour in power) complaining about 'Conservative cuts'.
I'm not saying they haven't balls things up (no pun intended) but they hadn't even had the name tags changed round on the desks in Westminster by that point and the left wingers were already on the war path. It seems that we have a very powerful lobby devoted to excusing the faults of any notionally socialist government and jumping on the challenges faced by any others. With such an influential PR force against them - from affluent socially aware Guardian readers down to the massed ranks of public sector workers spoon-fed by the unions - does that mean any Conservative government is now doomed to failure?
There has got to be another way .These cuts are cripling the country, no one is spending any more. More than 1 million more people out of work ,People are losing there homes and businesses.And the job losses are only getting worse . If there not paying tax then the government losses out and pays more out on dole money and the government have to rehome the people that loose the homes .The cuts in the long run are not goin to work . Said this before cut duty on every thing get people sending again . This crap this morning about not putting the council tax up to help us that is rubbish its already to high any way . Government should give us all tax breaks scrap council tax for small businesses and slowly build up the economy again then start paying the countries debts off slowly, not all in a short time .(We have been told not to expect any tax breaks for at least another 4 years) . Gets me how all counties are in debt because every think is to expensive then fuel companies food halls put there prices up . just dosn,t make sence to me .The reason we are all in debt cause we have to borrow to buy things due the to massively inflated prices .If any one from the governemt is reading this come down to any town centre . In my town on a thursday is market day i drop the wife off in town centre . 3 years ago the road where she works was packed with people walking around spending . Now you are lucky to see a hand full of people .
hollydog said:
There has got to be another way .These cuts are cripling the country, no one is spending any more. More than 1 million more people out of work ,People are losing there homes and businesses.And the job losses are only getting worse . If there not paying tax then the government losses out and pays more out on dole money and the government have to rehome the people that loose the homes .The cuts in the long run are not goin to work . Said this before cut duty on every thing get people sending again . This crap this morning about not putting the council tax up to help us that is rubbish its already to high any way . Government should give us all tax breaks scrap council tax for small businesses and slowly build up the economy again then start paying the countries debts off slowly, not all in a short time .(We have been told not to expect any tax breaks for at least another 4 years) . Gets me how all counties are in debt because every think is to expensive then fuel companies food halls put there prices up . just dosn,t make sence to me .The reason we are all in debt cause we have to borrow to buy things due the to massively inflated prices .If any one from the governemt is reading this come down to any town centre . In my town on a thursday is market day i drop the wife off in town centre . 3 years ago the road where she works was packed with people walking around spending . Now you are lucky to see a hand full of people .
Cuts?? What Cuts??What cuts, exactly please, with references if possible, have actually been put into place that have put 1 million people out of work?? Sensationalist b
ks.The government's attempts to impose fiscal discipline on state spending are acknowledged to be an important factor in the UK not having its credit rating downgraded. The media like to avoid mentioning this if possible.
New boss of the Institute of Directors was on R4 this AM.
He was suggesting that the government needed to try and kickstart the economy with capital investment. Interviewer instantly piped up "So they are wrong to be making such deep cuts?"
His reply was (roughly): "No, there is a clear difference between capital spending and ongoing costs, and a difference between productive and non-productive investment. he government is quite rightly trying cut public spending - the IoD beleive they should aim to reduce this to 35% of GDP - but they should try and increase their capital spending to stimulate the economy."
Unfortunately I got the impression that the interviewer (and a large part of the press) probably translated that to "spending good, cuts bad".
New boss of the Institute of Directors was on R4 this AM.
He was suggesting that the government needed to try and kickstart the economy with capital investment. Interviewer instantly piped up "So they are wrong to be making such deep cuts?"
His reply was (roughly): "No, there is a clear difference between capital spending and ongoing costs, and a difference between productive and non-productive investment. he government is quite rightly trying cut public spending - the IoD beleive they should aim to reduce this to 35% of GDP - but they should try and increase their capital spending to stimulate the economy."
Unfortunately I got the impression that the interviewer (and a large part of the press) probably translated that to "spending good, cuts bad".
mondeoman said:
Cuts?? What Cuts??
What cuts, exactly please, with references if possible, have actually been put into place that have put 1 million people out of work?? Sensationalist bks.
Perhaps he is what I was like when I was young an naïve. As I wrote in my last post, I believed everything the papers and BBC spoon fed me without question - so I hated Tories - although I didn't think to find out why!What cuts, exactly please, with references if possible, have actually been put into place that have put 1 million people out of work?? Sensationalist b
ks.
NHS!Roughly within top 5 employers in the world: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_five_largest...
And yet ranks poorly for health care: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/02/health...
turbobloke said:
hollydog said:
These cuts are cripling the country...
What cuts? There is a reduction, but in growth of public spending overall.The country was crippled by Labour. HTH.
There is no alternative to cuts. However, it is not the only form of financial management. Someone earlier used an anaology of an income of 50k with an expenditur of 57k. Although it is simplistic, as a very broad brush it is useful
If that was me then I would choose two methods of cutting out the problem of this 7k: spend less and get another job. And that is what the government needs to do: increase income as well as cutting expenditure.
Cuts are easy, growth requires a bit of planning and the ability to carry it through.
To reply to something someone said earlier, the unions were much stronger in Thatcher's day. There is no comparison to the pale shadow of today's lot. That was her main success, beating the power of the very powerful unions.
Looking back it was a very close run thing. If, as many people thought - including me - that the steel workers and the dockers would come in on the miner's side then it would have all fallen apart. It was all down to Scargill I think, at least looking back. He had alienated so many union officials that they were frightened of him.
She was very unpopular at the time. I seem to remember that she was then the most unpopular PM ever after 2 years in power, including amongst her own party. The Falklands, the bombing, both of which showed her best points to the extreme - I still can't see her coming out of the Grand, all covered in muck and dust, without feeling all creepy. She was superb. It was so much better than her speech on the steps of #10 when she took office: where there is mining, let us bring the dole, where people pay their rates, let us bring riots. If only MPs were honest.
If that was me then I would choose two methods of cutting out the problem of this 7k: spend less and get another job. And that is what the government needs to do: increase income as well as cutting expenditure.
Cuts are easy, growth requires a bit of planning and the ability to carry it through.
To reply to something someone said earlier, the unions were much stronger in Thatcher's day. There is no comparison to the pale shadow of today's lot. That was her main success, beating the power of the very powerful unions.
Looking back it was a very close run thing. If, as many people thought - including me - that the steel workers and the dockers would come in on the miner's side then it would have all fallen apart. It was all down to Scargill I think, at least looking back. He had alienated so many union officials that they were frightened of him.
She was very unpopular at the time. I seem to remember that she was then the most unpopular PM ever after 2 years in power, including amongst her own party. The Falklands, the bombing, both of which showed her best points to the extreme - I still can't see her coming out of the Grand, all covered in muck and dust, without feeling all creepy. She was superb. It was so much better than her speech on the steps of #10 when she took office: where there is mining, let us bring the dole, where people pay their rates, let us bring riots. If only MPs were honest.
On the "there are no cuts" thing, I genuinely believe that many of the British population do not understand the difference between the Deficit and the National Debt. And I don't think they'd have a hope of understanding the difference between cutting the deficit and cutting the rate at which it grows - we're getting into GCSE level maths here, people.
Cutting the deficit to less than it is now does not reduce the national debt.
Cutting the rate at which the deficit is increasing does not cut the deficit.
Cutting the deficit to less than it is now does not reduce the national debt.
Cutting the rate at which the deficit is increasing does not cut the deficit.
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