The state of the law in the UK now..

[johnfm]

just been speaking to a mate of mine who is a defence solicitor.

He was advising a client who worked for a big fencing company and was caught stealing £thousands worht of tools, materials etc from his employer and using it to do jobs on the side.

The police found all the stuff in a garage at the back of his house. SOmething like £12k worth of stuff.

He suggested that this sort of theft offence involves a 'breach of trust' (rather than just a stranger breaking into their yard to nick stuff) and would expect him to do some time.

The result?

A POLICE CAUTION!

The police response to the victim?

You got your tools back, and know who to sack so what are you moaning about?

Yikes!

[jbi]

Its a shame we dont have laws like the usa.


If i recall... anything over $5000 is classed as 'grand theft', and automatically upgraded to a felony which means 1 year minimum in jail.

[voyds9]

johnfm said:

A POLICE CAUTION!

The police response to the victim?

You got your tools back, and know who to sack so what are you moaning about?

Yikes!

And a good lawyer will get him £X,000's for wrongful dismissal.
Sad state of affairs.

[Digga]

People need to know the issues here, because they are simple and describe precisely why lenient sentencing and early release have become the norm.

1. We do not have enough spaces in prisons
2. The prisons and youth offender's facilities we have are barely under control
3. We have imported - inadvertently, through no control of immigration - criminals from some of the most violent and turbulent nations on the planet and they now represent a significant proprtion of custodial places

The police [ia]and[/i] judges are generally urged to bear this in mind when considering sentences and release for 'good behaviour' or whatever.

[Happy82]

Digga said:

1. We do not have enough spaces in prisons
2. The prisons and youth offender's facilities we have are barely under control
3. We have imported - inadvertently, through no control of immigration - criminals from some of the most violent and turbulent nations on the planet and they now represent a significant proprtion of custodial places

It's why I think we should export our prison population to Eastern Europe, India, China etc. Places over there could make quite a profit with our prison population and we'd be having a cost saving I'd imagine

[The Nur]

Happy82 said:

It's why I think we should export our prison population to Eastern Europe, India, China etc. Places over there could make quite a profit with our prison population and we'd be having a cost saving I'd imagine

Or we could take them out the back and shoot them, on the quiet obviously. Bullets are cheaper than prison places.

[Eric Mc]

Are you really complaining about the state of "justice" in the UK rather than the state of the "law"!.

We have far roo many laws in this country - and legislation increases at an astonishing rate.

[MacW]

Happy82 said:

It's why I think we should export our prison population to Eastern Europe, India, China etc. Places over there could make quite a profit with our prison population and we'd be having a cost saving I'd imagine

Not to mention suddenly having the buildings readily available for dozens of high priced boarding schools within our borders

[Digga]

Eric Mc said:

Are you really complaining about the state of "justice" in the UK rather than the state of the "law"!.

We have far roo many laws in this country - and legislation increases at an astonishing rate.

But the extant common sense laws - sentences for theft, burglary, wounding, killing, rape - are opften not enforced, because we're importing criminals and are not investing in infrastrucutre.

It's not only long term storage. Many police forces don't have sufficient house room or staff to keep all of their overnight guests at times.

What I am certain fuelled the recent riots was a (false, thankfully) sense of security on behalf of the underclass - that the system would not and, in any case could not serve justice. If it has shown anything it is that crime cannot be seen to be tollerated.

[johnfm]

Digga said:

People need to know the issues here, because they are simple and describe precisely why lenient sentencing and early release have become the norm.

1. We do not have enough spaces in prisons
2. The prisons and youth offender's facilities we have are barely under control
3. We have imported - inadvertently, through no control of immigration - criminals from some of the most violent and turbulent nations on the planet and they now represent a significant proprtion of custodial places

The police [ia]and[/i] judges are generally urged to bear this in mind when considering sentences and release for 'good behaviour' or whatever.

I think the victims would have at least expected an attempt at prosecution. If this then led to a suspended sentence or community service, so be it.

But a caution??

[Cupramax]

johnfm said:

just been speaking to a mate of mine who is a defence solicitor.

He was advising a client who worked for a big fencing company and was caught stealing £thousands worht of tools, materials etc from his employer and using it to do jobs on the side.

The police found all the stuff in a garage at the back of his house. SOmething like £12k worth of stuff.

He suggested that this sort of theft offence involves a 'breach of trust' (rather than just a stranger breaking into their yard to nick stuff) and would expect him to do some time.

The result?

A POLICE CAUTION!

The police response to the victim?

You got your tools back, and know who to sack so what are you moaning about?

Yikes!

I wont go into detail but someone working for the same company as me was caught doing much the same last year to the sum of £24k. The result, 18 months in the nick so as usual its swings and roundabouts.

[Digga]

johnfm said:

But a caution??

They're still dealing with the post-riot prosecutions. I'd say the capacity of the criminal courts might be another limiting factor to add to those I've already highlighted.

[oyster]

voyds9 said:

johnfm said:

A POLICE CAUTION!

The police response to the victim?

You got your tools back, and know who to sack so what are you moaning about?

Yikes!

And a good lawyer will get him £X,000's for wrongful dismissal.
Sad state of affairs.

What criteria could possibly be used to claim wrongful dismissal if a police caution for theft has been given?

[obob]

oyster said:

voyds9 said:

johnfm said:

A POLICE CAUTION!

The police response to the victim?

You got your tools back, and know who to sack so what are you moaning about?

Yikes!

And a good lawyer will get him £X,000's for wrongful dismissal.
Sad state of affairs.

What criteria could possibly be used to claim wrongful dismissal if a police caution for theft has been given?

DailyMailitis

[M@verick]

MacW said:

Happy82 said:

It's why I think we should export our prison population to Eastern Europe, India, China etc. Places over there could make quite a profit with our prison population and we'd be having a cost saving I'd imagine

Not to mention suddenly having the buildings readily available for dozens of high priced boarding schools within our borders

Seriously. That ^^ is *brilliant*.

Why cant we do this ? - we have "outsourced" our IT, Comms, and Manufacturing to India - why cant we outsource our prisons ?.

Please run for PM, I will vote for you.

R.

[greygoose]

Eric Mc said:

Are you really complaining about the state of "justice" in the UK rather than the state of the "law"!.

We have far roo many laws in this country - and legislation increases at an astonishing rate.

Are you suggesting we have kangaroo courts ?

[voyds9]

oyster said:

What criteria could possibly be used to claim wrongful dismissal if a police caution for theft has been given?

Some small procedural error in the paper work.

[Fer]

Happy82 said:

It's why I think we should export our prison population to Eastern Europe, India, China etc. Places over there could make quite a profit with our prison population and we'd be having a cost saving I'd imagine

Great, we can outsource something useful for a change.

[johnfm]

voyds9 said:

oyster said:

What criteria could possibly be used to claim wrongful dismissal if a police caution for theft has been given?

Some small procedural error in the paper work.

Oh, I get it. You mean employment law - the employee claiming unfair dismissal against the employer for being sacked for thieving.

[Digga]

johnfm said:

voyds9 said:

oyster said:

What criteria could possibly be used to claim wrongful dismissal if a police caution for theft has been given?

Some small procedural error in the paper work.

Oh, I get it. You mean employment law - the employee claiming unfair dismissal against the employer for being sacked for thieving.

Believe me, there will be some shyster lawyer somewhere - most likely in a practice in Merseyside which specialises in work fed to it by unions - who would have a go and hope the employer rolls over. What do they (Shyster, Shyster & Chisseler & Co. LLP) have to loose in it?

I actually know a firm who had similar happen - good grounds for dismissal, but ended by being dragged through an employment tribunal. They were found not guilty, but that's hardly compensation for the ordeal.