"How Europe can stave off a crisis" by Gordon Brown
Discussion
After I'd stopped laughing and wiped the tears from my eyes I thought some of you lot might enjoy this particular article. It seems someone in the comments section has hit the nail squarely on the head. 
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/10/21/h...
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/10/21/h...
On a personal level i like Gordon Brown but that may be due to how hopeless he is at public presentation. He was so uncomfortable in the Election debates and against two articulate speakers in Clegg and Cameron he looked like the most un-charismatic oaf you could find. However i think that leads him to come across as vaguely genuine as he doesnt have the skills to be deceiving.
I think towards the end the anger turned into sympathy, to a point where he'd taken so much abuse i almost felt sorry for him. Tony Blair - a fine bulls
tter - left office at the exact right time. Brown had terrorist attacks in his first week and Northern Rock fiasco within months and it never got any better. Blair saw it all coming and bailed to leave Brown as the fall guy (perhaps rightly, given some decisions as Chancellor) but you gotta hand it to Tony, he sure knows how to play the game.
As for Browns Europe article here its worthy of a big sigh as to be fair to him he raises some very good points and observations. He can clearly see what the problem is - which is half the battle - but he still doesnt really know what to do about it. His status as Advisor To The World Economic Forum is particularly amusing.
I think towards the end the anger turned into sympathy, to a point where he'd taken so much abuse i almost felt sorry for him. Tony Blair - a fine bulls
tter - left office at the exact right time. Brown had terrorist attacks in his first week and Northern Rock fiasco within months and it never got any better. Blair saw it all coming and bailed to leave Brown as the fall guy (perhaps rightly, given some decisions as Chancellor) but you gotta hand it to Tony, he sure knows how to play the game.As for Browns Europe article here its worthy of a big sigh as to be fair to him he raises some very good points and observations. He can clearly see what the problem is - which is half the battle - but he still doesnt really know what to do about it. His status as Advisor To The World Economic Forum is particularly amusing.
martin84 said:
elster said:
Then a thoroughly amusing post my Martin84. You do come out with some cracking jokes, I love your dry sense of humour.
Are you suggesting Blair didnt see the storm coming and vanished at the right time?What do we have to show for it? 1st class road system? Or a railway that is modern and upto date?
The best healthcare in the world? A education system that hasnt lost several places in Europes standing? An armed force that has the best equipment for it's wars?
Brilliant!A.J.M said:
He likely did see the storm coming, Brown though made the storm much worse than it should have been, ignored advice from countless people (pensions for a start) and ran up the biggest public debt in decades.
What do we have to show for it? 1st class road system? Or a railway that is modern and upto date?
The best healthcare in the world? A education system that hasnt lost several places in Europes standing? An armed force that has the best equipment for it's wars?
Well my biggest criticism of the Labour Government was their Transport policy. Despite moving 'central' on so many issues they seemed to retain a fanatically left-wing approach to transport and set out to limit movement which is always step 1 in communism. They thought if they taxed us heavily enough on cars we'd stop using them (wrong) and that they'd never have to build any roads (wrong) and that we'd all flock to a bus (wrong). I wouldnt mind so much if all them billions actually meant the Public Transport network was even 1% better than it was in 1997 but i dont think it is, i think they just wanted to limit movement entirely using the justification of the Green Ticket in order to do so which in turn is strangling our economy now when it most needs shackles removing.What do we have to show for it? 1st class road system? Or a railway that is modern and upto date?
The best healthcare in the world? A education system that hasnt lost several places in Europes standing? An armed force that has the best equipment for it's wars?
As for healthcare the NHS is still a magnificent institution in my view but its not producing value for its £110billion approx thrown at it per year and it should be doing better, few more nurses and doctors and a few less managers might help matters. Education should be producing better results than it is, for years we were told Grades were improving but - as employers soon found out - it wasnt producing any better practical results.
One possible reason for this is the Health and Education sectors tend to make up Labour's most core support so they'd never have the guts to properly face any problems within those establishments so just kept throwing money at it, fiddling figures and hoping it'd all be alright.
The problem with Labour's public transport policy was that all of the public transport was by that point run by private companies. If you give them money to improve services it seems all they do is fk all, and then give the money directly to their shareholders.
There is a bus that goes to my bus stop, that goes to the nearest town once a week. I don't believe there is a return service.
k all, and then give the money directly to their shareholders. There is a bus that goes to my bus stop, that goes to the nearest town once a week. I don't believe there is a return service.
davepoth said:
The problem with Labour's public transport policy was that all of the public transport was by that point run by private companies. If you give them money to improve services it seems all they do is fk all, and then give the money directly to their shareholders.
Nationalised Rail was like setting fire to a big pile of money and the previous Government recognised that but the real scandal of it is that with it privately owned (or run by private companies i know they're PLC's) the taxpayer's subsidy for public transport only increased! Rail Fares may be ridiculous but they'd be even more so without the Government subsidy and the Treasury loses money per mile travelled by Bus and Train (about 6p and 21p per mile respectively i do believe) but is in profit per mile driven by car. k all, and then give the money directly to their shareholders.We deregulated bus services and let companies buy it up and then give them a 43p a litre fuel duty rebate. Unbelievable.
davepoth said:
There is a bus that goes to my bus stop, that goes to the nearest town once a week. I don't believe there is a return service.
One way Bus Service? I hope Tesco is worth it.martin84 said:
Nationalised Rail was like setting fire to a big pile of money and the previous Government recognised that but the real scandal of it is that with it privately owned (or run by private companies i know they're PLC's) the taxpayer's subsidy for public transport only increased! Rail Fares may be ridiculous but they'd be even more so without the Government subsidy and the Treasury loses money per mile travelled by Bus and Train (about 6p and 21p per mile respectively i do believe) but is in profit per mile driven by car.
We deregulated bus services and let companies buy it up and then give them a 43p a litre fuel duty rebate. Unbelievable.
And therein lies the problem. Most of the public transport can't run without being propped up with government money, so the only way that private companies can be made to run it is to be given enormous subsidies to go straight to the pockets of rich people. I wasn't especially bothered with that when we were still supposed to aspire to car ownership though.We deregulated bus services and let companies buy it up and then give them a 43p a litre fuel duty rebate. Unbelievable.
davepoth said:
And therein lies the problem. Most of the public transport can't run without being propped up with government money, so the only way that private companies can be made to run it is to be given enormous subsidies to go straight to the pockets of rich people. I wasn't especially bothered with that when we were still supposed to aspire to car ownership though.
Correct but now its almost politically incorrect to own a car. Every council has a 'transport initiative' to reduce car use and make it easier to walk and get a bus etc. Using a bus or train has even taken on a slightly snobbish feel, like those Waitrose shoppers who always remember to take their own bags.The confusing thing is why? The Government dont make any money from us using the bus, they would if we all used it but billions would need investing in extra capacity for that to be possible first. The companies dont care if we use it or not as the Government subsidy sees them alright. Its in the Treasuries interest for us to own and drive cars yet we're constantly encouraged not to so i can only think its a politically correct anti-car idealistic movement. Public Transport isnt even particularly 'Green' either to be honest. Most companies ive worked for especially prefer employees with their own car as it shows they dont need to depend on unreliable public transport. Roads and vehicle use is the bloodline of the economy, we all know it, why do we skirt around it?
Car usage is now seen as 'dependancy' by public transport campaigners rather than the gateway to freedom and independance that most of us on here would view it as.
The most dangerous part in this is that Gordon Brown still sincerely believe he has the answer. Tony Blair still sincerely believes he has the answer.
Both of them still believe sincerely that they have the answer after the biggest balls up in economic history under their joint rule. They simply do not understand the whole 12 year mess was their joint failure.
Sadly there is no way to resolve this economic mess now. We can have short term depression or long term depression but whatever the politicians pretend there are no easy answers.
Economic depression is inevitable given the monumental over borrowing that has occurred. The die is cast and we are stuck with the outcome.
Both of them still believe sincerely that they have the answer after the biggest balls up in economic history under their joint rule. They simply do not understand the whole 12 year mess was their joint failure.
Sadly there is no way to resolve this economic mess now. We can have short term depression or long term depression but whatever the politicians pretend there are no easy answers.
Economic depression is inevitable given the monumental over borrowing that has occurred. The die is cast and we are stuck with the outcome.
martin84 said:
Im not convinced George Osborne has 'the answer' either. He has a different answer, that much is clear. However the proof of the pudding will be in the eating....
The "answer" will be unpalatable for everyone and make a lot of people sick...Its like a bad case of food poisoning that just wont go away until you stop eating for a few days, but because of other underlying issues the patient needs to eat every day, so it just wont get better.
martin84 said:
davepoth said:
And therein lies the problem. Most of the public transport can't run without being propped up with government money, so the only way that private companies can be made to run it is to be given enormous subsidies to go straight to the pockets of rich people. I wasn't especially bothered with that when we were still supposed to aspire to car ownership though.
Using a bus or train has even taken on a slightly snobbish feel, like those Waitrose shoppers who always remember to take their own bags.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff