Trying to hock the EU to China...WTF?
Discussion
Time to bail out.
There was an interesting interview with a guy in the Simon Mayo show last night about the various bail outs.
He pointed out that even if someone turned up with all the cash to fund the bailout it doesn't address the problem.
Greece has already defaulted and will continue to default for as long as their expenditure exceeds their income.
Bail them out now and we will be back here again in a few months.
There was an interesting interview with a guy in the Simon Mayo show last night about the various bail outs.
He pointed out that even if someone turned up with all the cash to fund the bailout it doesn't address the problem.
Greece has already defaulted and will continue to default for as long as their expenditure exceeds their income.
Bail them out now and we will be back here again in a few months.
jmorgan said:
Bet China is looking at this with glee, there are many other things they want secured we compete for.
You can accuse the Chinese of many things, but stupidity is certainly not one of them. It is accepted in Chinese culture that the very brightest go into the civil service. Can you look at Millipede, Balls-Up, and the various Ruperts in the coalition and say the same? I mean, Vince Cable as some kind of visionary????Now, I don't know whether I'm being exceptionally dim, but could someone please shed a bit of light on this for me?
Ever since this Ireland/Greece thing kicked off, I've wondered why the EU haven't just told them "this has been your chance to join our club. You've had plenty of money and there'll be no more. If you screw up and default, you're on your own and back to the drachma/punt and you'll have to work bloody hard to prove to us that you're worthy to join again."
If Greece/Ireland were to do that (default and resort to their native currency), they'd then have the financial tools to solve (at least some of) their problems and they've been sent a stern message about the "privilege" of having club membership (and so have every other one of the PIIGS).
I appreciate on sovereign default that various banks will be exposed, but surely the "bailout" money that they've been pouring down the drain could have been used to reinstate those funds - or does the CDS aspect of that exposure complicate things too much?
Like I say, I don't know whether it's just me being dim, but surely that has to be better than going cap in hand to anyone outside of the club, let alone China . . . all it illustrates to me is how utterly desperate they are to save face.
Ever since this Ireland/Greece thing kicked off, I've wondered why the EU haven't just told them "this has been your chance to join our club. You've had plenty of money and there'll be no more. If you screw up and default, you're on your own and back to the drachma/punt and you'll have to work bloody hard to prove to us that you're worthy to join again."
If Greece/Ireland were to do that (default and resort to their native currency), they'd then have the financial tools to solve (at least some of) their problems and they've been sent a stern message about the "privilege" of having club membership (and so have every other one of the PIIGS).
I appreciate on sovereign default that various banks will be exposed, but surely the "bailout" money that they've been pouring down the drain could have been used to reinstate those funds - or does the CDS aspect of that exposure complicate things too much?
Like I say, I don't know whether it's just me being dim, but surely that has to be better than going cap in hand to anyone outside of the club, let alone China . . . all it illustrates to me is how utterly desperate they are to save face.
I can't help but recalling this every time I read about this s
t.
It is so true and blindingly fooking obvious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0VhS8qXT0
and then I found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rK0De210TB...
t.It is so true and blindingly fooking obvious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0VhS8qXT0
and then I found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rK0De210TB...
Edited by odyssey2200 on Friday 28th October 11:40
The thing i don't get is thye constant background noise from the BBC about China's wonderful economic miracle, it's growth and the "fact" that it's now running the world.... completely overlooking the real facts, such as - it has a housing bubble in the process of bursting, huge mercantilist overcapacity causing serious inflation, an artificially pegged exchange rate that is going to pop and make it uncompetitive, and vast reserves of paper currency (the value of which is set by Bernanke).....
AndrewW-G said:
Randy Winkman said:
jshell said:
Endless pursuit of the communist socialist utopian dream!
The EU or China?dangerousB said:
Now, I don't know whether I'm being exceptionally dim, but could someone please shed a bit of light on this for me?
Ever since this Ireland/Greece thing kicked off, I've wondered why the EU haven't just told them "this has been your chance to join our club. You've had plenty of money and there'll be no more. If you screw up and default, you're on your own and back to the drachma/punt and you'll have to work bloody hard to prove to us that you're worthy to join again."
If Greece/Ireland were to do that (default and resort to their native currency), they'd then have the financial tools to solve (at least some of) their problems and they've been sent a stern message about the "privilege" of having club membership (and so have every other one of the PIIGS).
I appreciate on sovereign default that various banks will be exposed, but surely the "bailout" money that they've been pouring down the drain could have been used to reinstate those funds - or does the CDS aspect of that exposure complicate things too much?
Like I say, I don't know whether it's just me being dim, but surely that has to be better than going cap in hand to anyone outside of the club, let alone China . . . all it illustrates to me is how utterly desperate they are to save face.
You are not being dim, you just aren't used to thinking about the real goal and purpose of the EU. It is only interested in the long term creation of a single political entity, a full union as a supra national bosy, with all Nation States reduced to regions or fedrated states. (hence the previous need for Regional assemblies in the UK) Ever since this Ireland/Greece thing kicked off, I've wondered why the EU haven't just told them "this has been your chance to join our club. You've had plenty of money and there'll be no more. If you screw up and default, you're on your own and back to the drachma/punt and you'll have to work bloody hard to prove to us that you're worthy to join again."
If Greece/Ireland were to do that (default and resort to their native currency), they'd then have the financial tools to solve (at least some of) their problems and they've been sent a stern message about the "privilege" of having club membership (and so have every other one of the PIIGS).
I appreciate on sovereign default that various banks will be exposed, but surely the "bailout" money that they've been pouring down the drain could have been used to reinstate those funds - or does the CDS aspect of that exposure complicate things too much?
Like I say, I don't know whether it's just me being dim, but surely that has to be better than going cap in hand to anyone outside of the club, let alone China . . . all it illustrates to me is how utterly desperate they are to save face.
When things don't work, it is an opportunity to creat a solution that intergrates further and faster. We have seen it with CAP, Monetary Union, Diplomatic Envoys around the world (why have 20+ embassies, why not one single EU one) Now defence is on the radar etc
Gradually structural changes are made to pave the way for a supernation. Transport Policy, Infrastructure (energy is a good example, why do we buy French Electricity?) Banking etc are all moving slowly almost unnoticeably toward ever closer union.
Borrow the money, create a solution that works now, try to build further intergration, hence why the Germans want to make a Treaty Change to create (in all but name) fiscal union.
AndrewW-G said:
Prof Prolapse said:
What are you on about? How is recapitalising the banks and clearing bank debt part of the socialist ideology?
We're discussing the effect of a Chinese bail out of the EU . . . . .. . HTHCan you explain why the clearing of bank debt is in any way "socialist ideology" though?
Prof Prolapse said:
AndrewW-G said:
Prof Prolapse said:
What are you on about? How is recapitalising the banks and clearing bank debt part of the socialist ideology?
We're discussing the effect of a Chinese bail out of the EU . . . . .. . HTHCan you explain why the clearing of bank debt is in any way "socialist ideology" though?
chris watton said:
Prof Prolapse said:
AndrewW-G said:
Prof Prolapse said:
What are you on about? How is recapitalising the banks and clearing bank debt part of the socialist ideology?
We're discussing the effect of a Chinese bail out of the EU . . . . .. . HTHCan you explain why the clearing of bank debt is in any way "socialist ideology" though?
Whilst it may have been the initial reason for the parties existence, the reformist socialist agenda can hardly be claimed to exist in the party nowadays or in the time of old Gordie.
With reprivatisation always seeming to be present on the agenda it simply isn't socialism as I understand it.
The poorest pay the money to the banks started again and then bow out just in time for bourgeoisie to make money from our rescue package.
It's not socialism. It's pure capitalism.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff