University fees...
Discussion
Just looking at things for my daughter who wants to do fashion design at St. Martins.
£9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
£9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
johnfm said:
Just looking at things for my daughter who wants to do fashion design at St. Martins.
£9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
It's either £9k a year, or be stuck struggling even harder to get on to the employment pile without it. The fact is that unless you are going it alone from the word GO! then to actually even get looked at by a potential employer without a degree is virtually impossible regardless of ambition or talent.£9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
With the fees it is important not to forget that the reality of the £9k figure and what you actually pay is quite different. Depending on parental income there are all sorts of grants, funding, etc...(it's also quite easy to plead poverty to the university and they will slip you a few quid here and there) not to mention the fact that you don't actually start paying the money back for ages, and even when you do it's not a big deal. Furthermore, there isn't anything to pay up front, so you never actually see that 9k, its just a number on an account. It's the best loan I ever got to be honest.
The worst of all worlds is to send someone to university who doesn't genuinely want to go. I saw so many people in my year lose all their motivation and become entrenched in this idea that just because they have a mediocre degree that the world owes them a living. This attitude is created due to living off student grants which have provided a false reality of life on the outside (allowing them to buy the odd handbag, pay their rent easily and have an iphone).
If she genuinely wants to do fashion design and then take it as a career, then she should do the course. Probably the best idea is to test her ambition in the industry - can she get herself an internship at a designers for the summer? However, if she wants to do fashion design now, but then turns out that after her degree that actually she is perfectly happy being a bank clerk, then it's pointless for her to laden herself with the debt.
Don't see the cost of the degree as something which makes it a no-go. If she has the ambition let her do it, but tread carefully.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I used to do holiday work while at University with a bloke studying fashion at St Martins. Without fail, every term he'd bring back some willowy, doe-eyed metropolitan vision to the quiet backwaters of the Yorkshire Dales to make us all jealous.
Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 8th November 11:12
anonymous said:
[redacted]
An ex went to St Martins. She was of the view that precicely because it was full of airy fairy f
kwits, someone more aggressive with a complete focus on the business aspect rather than prancing around with papier mache could storm it in the opne market. The only hurdle being the offspring of well connected London families but those kids while they can get their foot in the door easily are often less driven and so can be out competed.I guess it depends what particular side of fashion someone aims to end up in, most parts pay F all but as mentioned, buying etc is well paid but bloody high stress.
People in that industry doing well certainly have to work harder and crappier hours than a banker, lawyer or accountant on the same pay level.
I went to London College of Fashion and lived with two people who went to CSM. If your daughter is serious about design then it would be a fantastic start for her. Much like LSE and Kings have the investment banking networks, CSM and LCF have a great network of lecturers based in fashion industries. I did all my internships after meeting people I had been introduced to by lecturers.
There are far too many people who want to be in the industry that never make it without the leg up that a good uni can provide. Yes the fees are expensive but, in this case, I feel they are worth it.
There are far too many people who want to be in the industry that never make it without the leg up that a good uni can provide. Yes the fees are expensive but, in this case, I feel they are worth it.
johnfm said:
Just looking at things for my daughter who wants to do fashion design at St. Martins.
£9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
Have you looked on the government website, as how the loan and repayments work out? It's easy to be put off by the amount but only if she ends up earning a BIG wage before she's 40, then chances are she won't have to pay that full 27k debt back. £9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
SpeedMattersNot said:
johnfm said:
Just looking at things for my daughter who wants to do fashion design at St. Martins.
£9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
Have you looked on the government website, as how the loan and repayments work out? It's easy to be put off by the amount but only if she ends up earning a BIG wage before she's 40, then chances are she won't have to pay that full 27k debt back. £9k fees per year for a 3 year BA in Fashion
Hahahahahahah
I just told my daughter she'd be better off designing some clothes, spending part of the £9k getting her designs made (in China probably) and trying to flog them.
In three years she will have made little profit, but learnt a lot and established a business.
£9k a year to study fashion design? Bonkers.
The reason being that the majority of women cease working to raise children before their careers reach the point at which re-payment is triggered or becomes remotely significant. Then, once they return to work most are at pay grades that don't trigger repayment.
So, all in, when you look at the stats for female grad's income cycles over a 30 year period it does very much look to be the case that university is still free.
It's why any girl on the protest tomorrow will be being a little bit thick, although at that age they all still think that they are going to have high paid professional careers and never ever fall into the trap that 99.9% of all women and fall in love, have children and raise them. Girls should be keeping very quiet about all of this as it plays massively into their hands.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 8th November 11:34
I'm trying to get onto a foundation degree in motorsport engineering. I can tell you that my partner is a hell of a lot brighter than I am, so even if I land myself a semi-decent job if we decide to have children I'll probably be the stay at home dad!
Make of this what you will.
Anyway, I'm sure you'd get an opposing arguement from someone (not from me) about how men are still favoured in the working industry and blah blah blah...
Make of this what you will.
Anyway, I'm sure you'd get an opposing arguement from someone (not from me) about how men are still favoured in the working industry and blah blah blah...
Look at this
http://studentfinance-yourfuture.direct.gov.uk/cal...
On a starting salary of £23500 she would be paying back £4.33 per week. Which equals the price of a decent sandwich in central London.
There's no point crushing her dreams just because you haven't bothered to read up how the loan system works.
http://studentfinance-yourfuture.direct.gov.uk/cal...
On a starting salary of £23500 she would be paying back £4.33 per week. Which equals the price of a decent sandwich in central London.
There's no point crushing her dreams just because you haven't bothered to read up how the loan system works.
How is she going to design those clothes and get them made in China? Draw a little sketch on a peice of paper then send it off to 'someone' in china and say "can you make me a few hundred of these please". I think a BA in Fashion and Design would probably teach her a bit more than she knows now, and certainly a LOT more than you think you know.
She wont 'pay' £9k a year, you need to have a proper talk with your daughter and be far more supportive and helpful. Is her heart set on it or is it just because she likes clothes and dressing up, and thinks it would be a pretty cool thing to do for a few years? It'a tough world out there for young people, and they, and you, need to be realistic, fashion and design sounds very cool and appealing, but although a qualification in Accountancy may sound dull, she'd always be in work and have shed loads of money ro spend on new clothes for the rest of her life.
She wont 'pay' £9k a year, you need to have a proper talk with your daughter and be far more supportive and helpful. Is her heart set on it or is it just because she likes clothes and dressing up, and thinks it would be a pretty cool thing to do for a few years? It'a tough world out there for young people, and they, and you, need to be realistic, fashion and design sounds very cool and appealing, but although a qualification in Accountancy may sound dull, she'd always be in work and have shed loads of money ro spend on new clothes for the rest of her life.
I have no doubt the degree course at ST Martins will be invaluable for her.
I was surprised to see it had already been pushed to the £9k limit - for a course where, most likely, the bulk of the course is practical, ie, her doing shedloads of design work.
I understand why, say, a physics or engineering course where there are labs with millions worth of machines in them, cost the full £9k - but fashion?
I also know that the £9k is effectively a loan financed by the Bank of Taxpayer, so not worried about that either.
I was surprised to see it had already been pushed to the £9k limit - for a course where, most likely, the bulk of the course is practical, ie, her doing shedloads of design work.
I understand why, say, a physics or engineering course where there are labs with millions worth of machines in them, cost the full £9k - but fashion?
I also know that the £9k is effectively a loan financed by the Bank of Taxpayer, so not worried about that either.
Bluebarge said:
Look at this
http://studentfinance-yourfuture.direct.gov.uk/cal...
On a starting salary of £23500 she would be paying back £4.33 per week. Which equals the price of a decent sandwich in central London.
There's no point crushing her dreams just because you haven't bothered to read up how the loan system works.
That is absolute, 100%, gilt edged, cast iron b0ll0cks.http://studentfinance-yourfuture.direct.gov.uk/cal...
On a starting salary of £23500 she would be paying back £4.33 per week. Which equals the price of a decent sandwich in central London.
There's no point crushing her dreams just because you haven't bothered to read up how the loan system works.
You can NOT get a decent sandwich in London for £4.33.
johnfm said:
I have no doubt the degree course at ST Martins will be invaluable for her.
I was surprised to see it had already been pushed to the £9k limit - for a course where, most likely, the bulk of the course is practical, ie, her doing shedloads of design work.
I understand why, say, a physics or engineering course where there are labs with millions worth of machines in them, cost the full £9k - but fashion?
Property costs for St Marins would be huge, but I would assume the course has been pushed to £9k purely as supply and demand dictates they can, based on numbers of applicants (and probably the number of non-uk students already paying a good deal to study there).I was surprised to see it had already been pushed to the £9k limit - for a course where, most likely, the bulk of the course is practical, ie, her doing shedloads of design work.
I understand why, say, a physics or engineering course where there are labs with millions worth of machines in them, cost the full £9k - but fashion?
A university degree gives you a bit of paper to prove you know your st. You can still know your st without that piece of paper, you just need to prove which in the arts means a very good portfolio.
All the stuff she'll learn on the course will be available in libraries and on the internet.. You're paying the £27K to be able to say that you have a degree.
If she can get some designs made and sold under her own steam then I'd be very confident that she'd be in a better position in 3 years when those students graduate with a piece of paper saying 'Degree' and your daughter has a piece of paper saying 'Purchase order'..
t. You can still know your st without that piece of paper, you just need to prove which in the arts means a very good portfolio. All the stuff she'll learn on the course will be available in libraries and on the internet.. You're paying the £27K to be able to say that you have a degree.
If she can get some designs made and sold under her own steam then I'd be very confident that she'd be in a better position in 3 years when those students graduate with a piece of paper saying 'Degree' and your daughter has a piece of paper saying 'Purchase order'..
Frankeh said:
A university degree gives you a bit of paper to prove you know your st. You can still know your st without that piece of paper, you just need to prove which in the arts means a very good portfolio.
All the stuff she'll learn on the course will be available in libraries and on the internet.. You're paying the £27K to be able to say that you have a degree.
If she can get some designs made and sold under her own steam then I'd be very confident that she'd be in a better position in 3 years when those students graduate with a piece of paper saying 'Degree' and your daughter has a piece of paper saying 'Purchase order'..
But just imagine how many more clients someone would have if they had been educated on how to design, manufacture, ship, market and sell thier product and also gained massive numbers of crucial contacts?t. You can still know your st without that piece of paper, you just need to prove which in the arts means a very good portfolio. All the stuff she'll learn on the course will be available in libraries and on the internet.. You're paying the £27K to be able to say that you have a degree.
If she can get some designs made and sold under her own steam then I'd be very confident that she'd be in a better position in 3 years when those students graduate with a piece of paper saying 'Degree' and your daughter has a piece of paper saying 'Purchase order'..
China is only cheap if you trade in volume. You can only buy in volume if you can sell in volume. To sell in volume you need to know exactly what you are doing and who you need to do it with.
Obviously, getting your gran to make the stuff, sell it on your market stall and hope to get a deal from Dragon's Den is a serious option and right up there with buying lottery tickets.
DonkeyApple said:
But just imagine how many more clients someone would have if they had been educated on how to design, manufacture, ship, market and sell thier product and also gained massive numbers of crucial contacts?
This can all be learned at home or in a library. You can buy the same course textbooks that they'll use in university from Amazon. The only valid part of that statement is the contacts bit.. University is good as a networking tool.
That said, unless OP is willing to give her £27K out of his own pocket she'd be better off just getting the loan. The repayments will be nothing really.
Frankeh said:
DonkeyApple said:
But just imagine how many more clients someone would have if they had been educated on how to design, manufacture, ship, market and sell thier product and also gained massive numbers of crucial contacts?
This can all be learned at home or in a library. You can buy the same course textbooks that they'll use in university from Amazon. The only valid part of that statement is the contacts bit.. University is good as a networking tool.
That said, unless OP is willing to give her £27K out of his own pocket she'd be better off just getting the loan. The repayments will be nothing really.
It's a nice idea but fundamentally not correct. It would only work to a basic level of understanding and comprehension.
Careers tend to have different requirements than being good at the local pub quiz.
Frankeh said:
DonkeyApple said:
But just imagine how many more clients someone would have if they had been educated on how to design, manufacture, ship, market and sell thier product and also gained massive numbers of crucial contacts?
This can all be learned at home or in a library. You can buy the same course textbooks that they'll use in university from Amazon. The only valid part of that statement is the contacts bit.. University is good as a networking tool.
That said, unless OP is willing to give her £27K out of his own pocket she'd be better off just getting the loan. The repayments will be nothing really.
While for most arts degrees I'd agree with you that they value of your own research and some real-world experience is probably greater, this isn't the 'University' of Bognor Regis. Incidentally, that's also why St. Martins can get away with £9k tuition fees.
BrabusMog said:
I went to London College of Fashion and lived with two people who went to CSM. If your daughter is serious about design then it would be a fantastic start for her. Much like LSE and Kings have the investment banking networks, CSM and LCF have a great network of lecturers based in fashion industries. I did all my internships after meeting people I had been introduced to by lecturers.
There are far too many people who want to be in the industry that never make it without the leg up that a good uni can provide. Yes the fees are expensive but, in this case, I feel they are worth it.
I'm with you. If you are going to do a creative arts degree then you HAVE to pick one of the well connected courses. For fashion and ID (which I did) you need to be in London to get the exposure at your final degree show. OP has she got an Arts Foundation course because this used to be a requirement for all the good CD courses - a couple wouldn't even let me open my folio to show them my work when they found out I hadn't done an AFC?There are far too many people who want to be in the industry that never make it without the leg up that a good uni can provide. Yes the fees are expensive but, in this case, I feel they are worth it.
The money will be well spent IMO, but the number of jobs is way way outstripped by the designers. The advice I would give her/you is that if she's not confident that she is the best on her a-level / foundation course (a view supported by tutors / teachers) then she needs to make sure that she either finds a niche that is in demand, or develops some very good complementary skills - learns Chinese or CAD tools for example.
AFAIK no one of my course got a job as a proper ID simply because the course was not well connected and it was too far away from London. I was lucky in that I went on to specialise at MSc(Eng) level which gave me some in demand niche skills.
Wish her luck - design degrees are fantastic things to do for three years.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff