Another dodgy Met decision? Protester warning
Discussion
At first, moderator, I was going to put this in the police law section but it is, as I am sure you will agree, more political than legal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/08/police...
If we ignore the legality of sending these warnings to those who have a conviction for public disorder at previous protests for the moment, the fact that they have been sent to those found not guilty, those not charged and where charges have not been proceeded with seems to me to be, at best, a rather poor decision in law. It seems to me that it could be interpreted by even reasonable people as a restriction on the right to demonstrate.
One wonders if the new commissioner knew about this initiative beforehand.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/08/police...
If we ignore the legality of sending these warnings to those who have a conviction for public disorder at previous protests for the moment, the fact that they have been sent to those found not guilty, those not charged and where charges have not been proceeded with seems to me to be, at best, a rather poor decision in law. It seems to me that it could be interpreted by even reasonable people as a restriction on the right to demonstrate.
One wonders if the new commissioner knew about this initiative beforehand.
Reminds me of,
"[Christmas] cards are being sent by police to prolific offenders, with a handwritten plea from a ten-year-old Burglary victim asking the offender to ‘Give a thought for others this Christmas’.
"Offenders will also receive ‘festive visits’ from officers.
"Chief Superintendent Alison Rose, chairman of Bradford District Safer Communities Partnership, said: “We want everyone to have a safe and happy Christmas.
“Burglary, especially over Christmas, has a huge emotional impact on victims.
“To those who might be thinking of committing crime our message is very clear – don’t do it.”
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4781988...
"[Christmas] cards are being sent by police to prolific offenders, with a handwritten plea from a ten-year-old Burglary victim asking the offender to ‘Give a thought for others this Christmas’.
"Offenders will also receive ‘festive visits’ from officers.
"Chief Superintendent Alison Rose, chairman of Bradford District Safer Communities Partnership, said: “We want everyone to have a safe and happy Christmas.
“Burglary, especially over Christmas, has a huge emotional impact on victims.
“To those who might be thinking of committing crime our message is very clear – don’t do it.”
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4781988...
What's your point derek?
The wording seems clear - don't undertake illegal behaviour.
What's wrong with that?
It is clear that the recipients have a tendency to undertake anti social and/or illegal behaviour at protests. This gives them fair warning.
They should save the paper and postage and just move straight to baton rounds at the protests.
The wording seems clear - don't undertake illegal behaviour.
What's wrong with that?
It is clear that the recipients have a tendency to undertake anti social and/or illegal behaviour at protests. This gives them fair warning.
They should save the paper and postage and just move straight to baton rounds at the protests.
johnfm said:
What's your point derek?
The wording seems clear - don't undertake illegal behaviour.
What's wrong with that?
It is clear that the recipients have a tendency to undertake anti social and/or illegal behaviour at protests. This gives them fair warning.
They should save the paper and postage and just move straight to baton rounds at the protests.
Agreed.The wording seems clear - don't undertake illegal behaviour.
What's wrong with that?
It is clear that the recipients have a tendency to undertake anti social and/or illegal behaviour at protests. This gives them fair warning.
They should save the paper and postage and just move straight to baton rounds at the protests.
What is wrong with warning people not to engage in criminal or anti social behaviour?
johnfm said:
What's your point derek?
The wording seems clear - don't undertake illegal behaviour.
What's wrong with that?
It is clear that some of [my correction - Derek] the recipients have a tendency to undertake anti social and/or illegal behaviour at protests. This gives them fair warning.
They should save the paper and postage and just move straight to baton rounds at the protests.
Fair warning of what? That the police will continue to treat repeat offenders exactly the same as any other person? After all the only time, except in limited circumstances, precons or cautions can be taken into consideration is for the punishment.The wording seems clear - don't undertake illegal behaviour.
What's wrong with that?
It is clear that some of [my correction - Derek] the recipients have a tendency to undertake anti social and/or illegal behaviour at protests. This gives them fair warning.
They should save the paper and postage and just move straight to baton rounds at the protests.
There is an implied threat. The right to protest is just that, a right. I'm all for statutory protective measures but here we have letters being sent to all and sundry. The sending of them to those who have not been found guilty is, I feel, rather pathetic.
On another tack: this costs. There is no evidence to suggest that it works as a deterent. You say 'save the postage and paper' (plus the time, much more expensive) and I'd say yes. Do they really expect it to stop someone who is intent on violence from going?
I've recently worked out the costs of posting letters for the purpose of tax relief. Ask yourself how many are they sending? 1000? 2000? 3000? Given that they are sending them out to everyone who was arrested this would suggest that the total is quite high. There's the cost of the envelope, the paper, the printing, the 36p for the stamp (on the questionable premise they are going 2nd class), the gaining of the addresses and names (although some time has been saved by not targeting the letters), the stuffing, the sealing, the collecting, the posting. There are other oncosts such as storage. And what chance of any being effective?
Perhaps my whinge has more to do with being 'tasked' with such brilliant ideas in the past. Someone says: Wouldn't this be nice, and then dumps organising it onto someone who has something much better to do. I was asked, together with others in the command team, to give thoughts on a similar proposition. I, being new to the division, didn't know what level of effort others would put into the meeting so I did research and came up with the rather obvious faults in the suggestion.
I was asked to go first in reply to the proposal, supposedly to introduce myself to the team as well as the CI and inspector from HQ. I pointed out an error in maths (a factor of 10!), the non-sequiturs, the fact that it had been tried in the past and it had failed - despite the proposal being researched with more care, that it was not measurable (a basic surely) and I was taken aside after the meeting by the CSuper and given a ballocking for not supporting the divisional initiatives. This project has all the hallmarks of just such an idea.
On the assumption that this is to stop demonstrators being arrested a second time (whether guilty or no) the initiative is not measurable in any meaningful way. What possible target could you have?
The money could have been put to sensible use.
kIN HEAD KICKED IN!"Guardian quotes:
"Essex sixth form student Tyler Perkin, who previously had all charges dropped in relation to a peaceful UKuncut protest inside Fortnum and Mason store in March this year said that he was horrified by the fact that he was still on a police database."
Don't bother going to Uni Tyler if you are that stupid to believe the Police will just forget about you.
"Lawyer Rhona Friedman told the Guardian that two of her clients had received police letters and that she also feared police databases were being employed to stop innocent young demonstrators from taking to the street."
Apparently the Police intend to stop the protestors by blocking their route with a 10ft high wall of servers fastened together with ethernet cabling.
"Organisers of the march, which will set off after midday on Wednesday and join Occupy London Stock Exchange protesters who are camped around St Paul's cathedral, have written to police warning them that children will be used as human shields during the demonstration after they learned of the authorisation of rubber bullets."
Edited for accuracy.
"Essex sixth form student Tyler Perkin, who previously had all charges dropped in relation to a peaceful UKuncut protest inside Fortnum and Mason store in March this year said that he was horrified by the fact that he was still on a police database."
Don't bother going to Uni Tyler if you are that stupid to believe the Police will just forget about you.
"Lawyer Rhona Friedman told the Guardian that two of her clients had received police letters and that she also feared police databases were being employed to stop innocent young demonstrators from taking to the street."
Apparently the Police intend to stop the protestors by blocking their route with a 10ft high wall of servers fastened together with ethernet cabling.
"Organisers of the march, which will set off after midday on Wednesday and join Occupy London Stock Exchange protesters who are camped around St Paul's cathedral, have written to police warning them that children will be used as human shields during the demonstration after they learned of the authorisation of rubber bullets."
Edited for accuracy.
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