Baton rounds on protesters
Discussion
I have read the recent thread in which the business of the discharge of baton rounds by police MAY be used in controlling 'violent' or criminal behaviour by protesters during their protest march.
Only very recently did our Government explain that the use of water cannon on protesters was unacceptable in the U.K. Yet now its acceptable to use baton rounds. Presumably the actual discharge will be on the order of the senior officer in charge of the units on the day? Also its likely that the officers with the responsibility of discharging those weapons into the persons will be at the discretion of that officer.
Is this the beginning of the end of ordinary policing of protesters and is it the thin end of the wedge.
I would have thought that the use of baton rounds are entirely 'over the top' and simply wrong in the context of protests. Is it not reasonable that the police have enough well trained officers that are equipped in dealing with violence in the manner that we have seen to become more violent as each year passes.
If baton rounds are discharged into protesters I would imagine that it will be met with yet more violence from protesters.
Only very recently did our Government explain that the use of water cannon on protesters was unacceptable in the U.K. Yet now its acceptable to use baton rounds. Presumably the actual discharge will be on the order of the senior officer in charge of the units on the day? Also its likely that the officers with the responsibility of discharging those weapons into the persons will be at the discretion of that officer.
Is this the beginning of the end of ordinary policing of protesters and is it the thin end of the wedge.
I would have thought that the use of baton rounds are entirely 'over the top' and simply wrong in the context of protests. Is it not reasonable that the police have enough well trained officers that are equipped in dealing with violence in the manner that we have seen to become more violent as each year passes.
If baton rounds are discharged into protesters I would imagine that it will be met with yet more violence from protesters.
k them.
All that police threats of violence are going to achive is the filling of more and more of central London with idiots in tents staging "peaceful" protests.
Why plod can't just keep their mouths shut and give a proportionate response as situations develop is one of life's great mysteries.
Why plod can't just keep their mouths shut and give a proportionate response as situations develop is one of life's great mysteries.
- Kettling - angers lawful protesters and encourages people to bring tents.
- Standing back and watching the riots - encouraged a lot more similar trouble.
- Threatening water cannon - guaranteed to increase the determination of protesters.
- Threatening baton rounds - inevitable risk of severe injury to passers-by.
Ozzie Osmond said:
All that police threats of violence are going to achive is the filling of more and more of central London with idiots in tents staging "peaceful" protests.
Why plod can't just keep their mouths shut and give a proportionate response as situations develop is one of life's great mysteries.
So what do you suggest? Do nothing and wait for the scummers to start burning stuff and attcking people to see how far they can push it? The ones who get involved in the violent elements are a sub species, they do not understand and they don't care until they recieve a battering. Why plod can't just keep their mouths shut and give a proportionate response as situations develop is one of life's great mysteries.
- Kettling - angers lawful protesters and encourages people to bring tents.
- Standing back and watching the riots - encouraged a lot more similar trouble.
- Threatening water cannon - guaranteed to increase the determination of protesters.
- Threatening baton rounds - inevitable risk of severe injury to passers-by.
From somebody who actually lives in London I'm quite happy for violence to be met with equal/more force if it means my family and property are safe from "protestors". I will also continue to flash my lights and sound my horn at the tents outside St Pauls at 6 every morning just in case any of them happen to have slept over and fancy getting up early.
MX7 said:
After last years' protests, is it unreasonable to expect the police to take a harder line?
In the use of baton rounds - yes. This IMHO will only lead to escalation of protest riots, and as an earlier poster points out, protester and rioter are two entirely different species. For me the use of baton rounds is an entirely disproportionate response to violent disorder in the U.K. Its far too dangerous to consider this type control in mixed public groups, as mentioned earlier. Seems to me to be an admission of failure by the police to even consider such use.Following years of training, at great expense, in the control of violent behavioural groups is this really the best we can expect from the police. Another step in the wrong direction I fear.
My wife is a life long liberal and pro-protestor but even she believes that the Police in the UK are far far too lenient on violent protestors.
Some of the theory on here is that the protestors will get more violent if the police can use violence themselves.
That is an obvious risk. The other risk is that there are enough people who know that the worst they will get for having a violent protest/riot is a few hours without a toilet and so are willing to take the risk.
Would they be so willing if they know that a group of policemen, trained in this sort of thing, can whack them with a big stick or shoot at them with a baton round?
I suspect not. I was in Spain during the Summer riots and everyone there thought we were a joke for letting it get out of control, they all said. If you had hit them when it started it wouldn't have got so bad.
Some of the theory on here is that the protestors will get more violent if the police can use violence themselves.
That is an obvious risk. The other risk is that there are enough people who know that the worst they will get for having a violent protest/riot is a few hours without a toilet and so are willing to take the risk.
Would they be so willing if they know that a group of policemen, trained in this sort of thing, can whack them with a big stick or shoot at them with a baton round?
I suspect not. I was in Spain during the Summer riots and everyone there thought we were a joke for letting it get out of control, they all said. If you had hit them when it started it wouldn't have got so bad.
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