EURO conspiracy theory
Discussion
Merkel is now using the language of federalism , saying effectively that those countries in the Euro that are failing will have to reform and be subject to discipline and controls if they are to be saved by Germany.
It seems that only closer federalism under German control will save the EURO.
So, donning my tin foil hat to stop the European secret police from invading my mind, may I offer the theory that this was planned all along?
After all, the debt crisis is a mess. But the correlation between the debt crisis and the actual increase in debt defaults seems inconclusive. So why are we having a crisis again? Was this the plan all along?
Are we witnessing the deliberate and planned reorganisation of the civil structures supporting a society of hundreds of millions of people , without any shot being fired?
It seems that only closer federalism under German control will save the EURO.
So, donning my tin foil hat to stop the European secret police from invading my mind, may I offer the theory that this was planned all along?
After all, the debt crisis is a mess. But the correlation between the debt crisis and the actual increase in debt defaults seems inconclusive. So why are we having a crisis again? Was this the plan all along?
Are we witnessing the deliberate and planned reorganisation of the civil structures supporting a society of hundreds of millions of people , without any shot being fired?
Germany has a strong export market, esp high end products and manufacturing.
What do other countries have in Europe. What did Greece do when it joined the Euro and had access to loans. infrastructure, transportation, no it just spunked it on s
t.
The problem is in the EURO, a lot of the countries have made some bad mistakes in investment...
What do other countries have in Europe. What did Greece do when it joined the Euro and had access to loans. infrastructure, transportation, no it just spunked it on s
t.The problem is in the EURO, a lot of the countries have made some bad mistakes in investment...
There is nothing of course new in EU conspiracy theories, or Euro conspiracy theories, or indeed conspiracy theories in general. But healthy scepticism is one thing; rampant paranoia is something else entirely.
At the moment we have a situation where the only country with any brass in the EU zone is Germany and they are bailing the rest out. And Germany is interested in what happens to their money.
"This is proof positive that the fourth Reich is here!!!!!" many on here will say, and go to great lengths to prove their argument is correct with any number of "facts," some real and some imagined (no names, but you know who you are
)
There is of course another way of looking at these things. If, for sake of argument, Wales was bankrupt and England was bailing them out, would us English think it was reasonable to keep an eye on what the Welsh were doing with the bailout money?
Just a thought
At the moment we have a situation where the only country with any brass in the EU zone is Germany and they are bailing the rest out. And Germany is interested in what happens to their money.
"This is proof positive that the fourth Reich is here!!!!!" many on here will say, and go to great lengths to prove their argument is correct with any number of "facts," some real and some imagined (no names, but you know who you are
)There is of course another way of looking at these things. If, for sake of argument, Wales was bankrupt and England was bailing them out, would us English think it was reasonable to keep an eye on what the Welsh were doing with the bailout money?
Just a thought
Before the Euro Germany had a currency that was strong in this part of the world meaning that it would struggle to export and make money. As Germany became a stronger economy after the war (as it had no defense budget and became a strong manufacturer base for europe) its currency also become stronger. Meaning that it would effectively fight a long losing battle over the coming years against it neighbouring areas (as the likes of Italy, Spain etc. were not growing at the same rate as Germany).
So Germany needed a method to compete against its neighbours and force a 'level playing field'. Then wow bang wallop here comes the Euro single common currency. Now Germany can trade its goods on a 1:1 ratio whereby they become 'affordable' from all the other Euro countries.
Germany makes a LOT of money over these years of easy exporting and easily strides ahead as Europe's largest economy.
But on the other side of the coin is the risk of tie-ing your own currency to that of countries that are weak. The debt bubble bursts and Germany's fears come to light in 2008. So its not surprising they are wanting to cut the strings of those weak economies now that they are hindering Germany's progress.
This is basically my own uneducated view of the goings on, and I do welcome someone with knowledge on this area to put me right. (I hope I'm not too far off the mark )
So Germany needed a method to compete against its neighbours and force a 'level playing field'. Then wow bang wallop here comes the Euro single common currency. Now Germany can trade its goods on a 1:1 ratio whereby they become 'affordable' from all the other Euro countries.
Germany makes a LOT of money over these years of easy exporting and easily strides ahead as Europe's largest economy.
But on the other side of the coin is the risk of tie-ing your own currency to that of countries that are weak. The debt bubble bursts and Germany's fears come to light in 2008. So its not surprising they are wanting to cut the strings of those weak economies now that they are hindering Germany's progress.
This is basically my own uneducated view of the goings on, and I do welcome someone with knowledge on this area to put me right. (I hope I'm not too far off the mark
)The more you look at it, the more the conspiracy argument starts to resemble a religious belief.
A large scale battle of good (the people) versus evil (the bankers)
Various versions of "the truth", many of which conflict with a) each other and b) themselves
Assorted saviours and demons
Followers convinced their version is the one true version
Lack of critical thinking
Refusal to consider evidence that doesn't fit the world view
Modifying the world view to fit the evidence rather than explaining why the previous world view was wrong
Opinions and heresay as facts
In much the same way many religious people will twist the basis of their religion to excuse their non-observance of something, conspiracy theories also seem to evolve. Rather than explain a gap in the theory, the theory is simply changed so the gap itself becomes part of the conspiracy. We have the same insistence that dark forces are at work, the same belief in some enlightenment that only "the few" have been subject to and the cast of heroes and villains to revere or revile.
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that in the same way people will fall back on religion to explain things they don't understand (the will of God), many people are now falling back on conspiracy to explain the mess we're in, rather than consider the alternative, which is firstly the people we put in charge are mostly incompetent, which by extension means we ourselves are incompetent for putting them there, and secondly that our current way of life is neither economically or ecologically sustainable and we are starting to see it unravel. We've convinced ourselves that we're better than the rest, so can't possibly accept the notion that the systems we designed are actually starting to fail. Far more comforting to believe the cracks are the work of some nefarious collective than the start of a much more dramatic collapse. Rather than trying to understand how we can properly fix things to ensure things don't completely collapse (peak everything, let alone oil), we're running around finding scapegoats so we don't have the consider the alternatives or actually DO something about them.
A large scale battle of good (the people) versus evil (the bankers)
Various versions of "the truth", many of which conflict with a) each other and b) themselves
Assorted saviours and demons
Followers convinced their version is the one true version
Lack of critical thinking
Refusal to consider evidence that doesn't fit the world view
Modifying the world view to fit the evidence rather than explaining why the previous world view was wrong
Opinions and heresay as facts
In much the same way many religious people will twist the basis of their religion to excuse their non-observance of something, conspiracy theories also seem to evolve. Rather than explain a gap in the theory, the theory is simply changed so the gap itself becomes part of the conspiracy. We have the same insistence that dark forces are at work, the same belief in some enlightenment that only "the few" have been subject to and the cast of heroes and villains to revere or revile.
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that in the same way people will fall back on religion to explain things they don't understand (the will of God), many people are now falling back on conspiracy to explain the mess we're in, rather than consider the alternative, which is firstly the people we put in charge are mostly incompetent, which by extension means we ourselves are incompetent for putting them there, and secondly that our current way of life is neither economically or ecologically sustainable and we are starting to see it unravel. We've convinced ourselves that we're better than the rest, so can't possibly accept the notion that the systems we designed are actually starting to fail. Far more comforting to believe the cracks are the work of some nefarious collective than the start of a much more dramatic collapse. Rather than trying to understand how we can properly fix things to ensure things don't completely collapse (peak everything, let alone oil), we're running around finding scapegoats so we don't have the consider the alternatives or actually DO something about them.
toppstuff said:
may I offer the theory that this was planned all along?
Of course it was planned all along.Many prefer to believe we are looking at a european super state that was 'magicked' into existence by a chance meeting of fairies and the flower people...
It wasn't however, here are the blueprints:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179902/Re...
Read it a bit, and then look at what has happened - it's all going to plan.
The euro was the mechanism to break europe up, divide and conquer. Greece is down, so is Italy, Spain next.
hornet said:
The more you look at it, the more the conspiracy argument starts to resemble a religious belief.
You have been well programmed - congratulations.Now lets shift to reality shall we?
A conspiracy is a meeting of people to agree on a course of action.
This is the meeting: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/In...
The course of action is now documented in every single paper in the world.
Go figure.
Globs said:
You have been well programmed - congratulations.
Now lets shift to reality shall we?
A conspiracy is a meeting of people to agree on a course of action.
This is the meeting: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/In...
The course of action is now documented in every single paper in the world.
Go figure.
Now lets shift to reality shall we?
A conspiracy is a meeting of people to agree on a course of action.
This is the meeting: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/In...
The course of action is now documented in every single paper in the world.
Go figure.
I love these threads where Globs reverts into full-on raving paranoid conspiracy mode.
I am, obviously, once of the crypto-fascist quasi-trotskyite alien lizard people hell bent on world domination that get him so agitated - which is makes it even more enjoyable.
(Winks, using reptilian third eyelid)
eharding said:
I love these threads where Globs reverts into full-on raving paranoid conspiracy mode.
I am, obviously, once of the crypto-fascist quasi-trotskyite alien lizard people hell bent on world domination that get him so agitated - which is makes it even more enjoyable.
(Winks, using reptilian third eyelid)
When you are able to sit down again could you man up a little and explain why you think there was no meeting and no plan for the EU?
Globs said:
It's touching that you are still fascinated by me hardy, you are like a light I can flick on and off at will.
When you are able to sit down again could you man up a little and explain why you think there was no meeting and no plan for the EU?
I'm sure there were all manner of desperate plans, deluded machinations and plainly demented schemes being proposed as Nazi Germany collapsed - and a few of them paid off: I'm sure there were more than a few Nazis who died an undeservedly peaceful death in South America, despite the best efforts of the Israelis.When you are able to sit down again could you man up a little and explain why you think there was no meeting and no plan for the EU?
What is equally desperate, deluded and plainly demented is to try and stitch together a report of one such hat-stand Nazi scheme, an off-the-cuff Daily Mail leader (a bookmark you clearly treasure) and somehow try to claim that Germany's present-day conduct is all part of a plan cooked up by the Nazis.
I think it's got nothing to do with Nazis , that's silly.
But it could be about a view that the world needs a federal Uniited States of Europe as a balance to the USA and China. Given that democratic structures are never going to deliver this outcome, a crisis and resulting intervention should do nicely.
Give it a few more years and we will see a federal Europe effectively ruled from Germany. Maybe this was the plan all along and the "crisis " is just a sideshow.
But it could be about a view that the world needs a federal Uniited States of Europe as a balance to the USA and China. Given that democratic structures are never going to deliver this outcome, a crisis and resulting intervention should do nicely.
Give it a few more years and we will see a federal Europe effectively ruled from Germany. Maybe this was the plan all along and the "crisis " is just a sideshow.
Germany's present-day conduct? Why Germany's - what about the rest of the EU?
I guess you haven't actually read the article..
Why do you think the connection between the Fourth Reich and the EU are demented?
Logically you must have an alternate idea of how the EU came about and got so much power - what is it?
And why do you try to put people down so much Hardy Boy? Are you really that insecure?
It was the same with Fukushima - despite (sadly) being proven wrong on that you still think you are better than anyone?
Get a grip Hardy, try reading your own posts once in a while .. there's a sad story between the lines of rage.
Oh - and answer the questions.
I guess you haven't actually read the article..
Why do you think the connection between the Fourth Reich and the EU are demented?
Logically you must have an alternate idea of how the EU came about and got so much power - what is it?
And why do you try to put people down so much Hardy Boy? Are you really that insecure?
It was the same with Fukushima - despite (sadly) being proven wrong on that you still think you are better than anyone?
Get a grip Hardy, try reading your own posts once in a while .. there's a sad story between the lines of rage.
Oh - and answer the questions.
rs1952 said:
"This is proof positive that the fourth Reich is here!!!!!" many on here will say, and go to great lengths to prove their argument is correct with any number of "facts," some real and some imagined (no names, but you know who you are )
I beleive we better start building more Spitfires, old man. Damned Jerry are going to do it all over again. )Globs said:
Why do you think the connection between the Fourth Reich and the EU are demented?
See above. Trying to stitch together random fragments of information to support a delusional agenda begins to tick all of the boxes in the 'demented' category.Globs said:
Logically you must have an alternate idea of how the EU came about and got so much power - what is it?
It starts in 1945 with a broken, devastated Europe. The overwhelming, visceral need of continental nations who had all experienced invasion, occupation and massive destruction to ensure that it should never happen again. The realisation that they were wedged between the two new superpowers, and 35 years of expecting the next war between those superpowers to start on European territory. The inherent desire to form a power bloc of their own, and when the Soviet bloc collapsed, the opportunity to make that happen. The fundamental sin was one of over-ambition, of rushing down the route to a single currency, allowing nations to join who were patently unfit to do so, and allowing the bureaucrats to empire build without restraint, leading us to where we are today. No conspiracy, just cock-up. Globs said:
And why do you try to put people down so much Hardy Boy? Are you really that insecure?
It was the same with Fukushima - despite (sadly) being proven wrong on that you still think you are better than anyone?
Get a grip Hardy, try reading your own posts once in a while .. there's a sad story between the lines of rage.
Oh - and answer the questions.
Try re-reading the Fukushima thread yourself, chum - although I suspect all that flashing animated GIF shyte you plagued us all with might give you a fit.It was the same with Fukushima - despite (sadly) being proven wrong on that you still think you are better than anyone?
Get a grip Hardy, try reading your own posts once in a while .. there's a sad story between the lines of rage.
Oh - and answer the questions.
Globs said:
Read it a bit, and then look at what has happened - it's all going to plan.
The euro was the mechanism to break europe up, divide and conquer. Greece is down, so is Italy, Spain next.
The plan was to rule Europe by getting into a huge amount of debt with communist (Nazi enemy number 2) China and use it to pay the debts of Greece and Italy who will almost certainly never pay you back?The euro was the mechanism to break europe up, divide and conquer. Greece is down, so is Italy, Spain next.
It was all fairly explicitly planned out and has been openly discussed since WW2.
Like most "conspiracies" it wasn't flown about in a black helicopter or penned by a reptile though, it was written by no mark bureaucrats and hidden away in long boring treaties that you've never read.
They didn't need to engineer the collapse of Greece, because the Greeks did that all by themselves.
Turning every crisis into an excuse for deeper integration is the normal mode of operations too. It's really pretty much standard political shenanigans.
Conspiracy theories are all too often a means of obscuring wood with trees. What difference would some hidden dark force make, to the already catastrophic and anti-democratic farce unfolding before our very eyes?
Like most "conspiracies" it wasn't flown about in a black helicopter or penned by a reptile though, it was written by no mark bureaucrats and hidden away in long boring treaties that you've never read.
They didn't need to engineer the collapse of Greece, because the Greeks did that all by themselves.
Turning every crisis into an excuse for deeper integration is the normal mode of operations too. It's really pretty much standard political shenanigans.
Conspiracy theories are all too often a means of obscuring wood with trees. What difference would some hidden dark force make, to the already catastrophic and anti-democratic farce unfolding before our very eyes?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff