Another public vs private pay story...

[Puggit]

Public sector workers earn £4,000 a year pay premium compared to private staff

The average public sector worker earns nearly £4,000 a year more than a typical private sector worker, official figures revealed yesterday.

The figures emerged days before state workers hold what union leaders hope will be the biggest strikes for a generation.

The Office for National Statistics said the average public sector worker, who works full-time, is paid an annual salary of £28,802.

By comparison, the average full-time worker in the private sector receives a salary of only £25,000, a gap of £3,802.

Everyone's favourite Daily Soovy

[Mojooo]

In with 'but does that incldue all the public jobs that are carried out by private companies' ?

[sidicks]

Puggit said:

Public sector workers earn £4,000 a year pay premium compared to private staff

The average public sector worker earns nearly £4,000 a year more than a typical private sector worker, official figures revealed yesterday.

The figures emerged days before state workers hold what union leaders hope will be the biggest strikes for a generation.

The Office for National Statistics said the average public sector worker, who works full-time, is paid an annual salary of £28,802.

By comparison, the average full-time worker in the private sector receives a salary of only £25,000, a gap of £3,802.

Everyone's favourite Daily Soovy

Of course comparing average salaries is meaningless if the jobs acrried out are different.

What is needed is to compare (for example) the average admin job in the public sector and a similar job in the private sector. That might produce a meaningful answer.

Sidicks

[JagLover]

sidicks said:

Of course comparing average salaries is meaningless if the jobs acrried out are different.

What is needed is to compare (for example) the average admin job in the public sector and a similar job in the private sector. That might produce a meaningful answer.

Sidicks

No what is needed is to compare remuneration with average levels of education. On that basis the public sector are still paid more, but the difference isn't as great, but that is before you take account of the differing pension rights of course.

[vonuber]

I think we should just get rid entirely of the public sector. That's the only way to stop these threads - god forbid that someone in the public sector may do a job well enough to get paid for it. They should do it for free and be grateful, or pass it over to some nice private corporation who can help some PH's into another Directorship.

[Elroy Blue]

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

[anonymous-user]

Elroy Blue said:

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

I think you'll find that its the incompetence of the public sector that allows this to happen without penalty or recourse.

[Elroy Blue]

Bandit said:

Elroy Blue said:

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

I think you'll find that its the incompetence of the public sector that allows this to happen without penalty or recourse.

Oh that's right. It's all the 'Public sector's' fault.

I think you'll find that it's Bae taking advantage of the Mod when they know they've got them over a barrel. You don't have to look any further than Nimrod to see just what that company gets up to.

[randlemarcus]

Elroy Blue said:

Bandit said:

Elroy Blue said:

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

I think you'll find that its the incompetence of the public sector that allows this to happen without penalty or recourse.

Oh that's right. It's all the 'Public sector's' fault.

I think you'll find that it's Bae taking advantage of the Mod when they know they've got them over a barrel. You don't have to look any further than Nimrod to see just what that company gets up to.

I suspect most of the stories that find their way into the public domain have significant elements of blame to be shared by both parties to a contract. That's certainly the case I have come across doing after-event analysis in the IT sector, both public and private sector. If one had to paint a stereotypical view, it would be ill-thought-out sneakiness on the private sectors part, and ill-thought-out ineptness on the public sector part, but those roles are freely swapped between parties.

[anonymous-user]

The reason for this pay discrepancy is because on average private sector workers are stupider than public sector ones.

HTH

[anonymous-user]

randlemarcus said:

I suspect most of the stories that find their way into the public domain have significant elements of blame to be shared by both parties to a contract. That's certainly the case I have come across doing after-event analysis in the IT sector, both public and private sector. If one had to paint a stereotypical view, it would be ill-thought-out sneakiness on the private sectors part, and ill-thought-out ineptness on the public sector part, but those roles are freely swapped between parties.

Exactly - but if the public sector wasn't so "inept", the private sector wouldn't be able to be so "sneaky".

There are hundreds of stories of public sector paying well over the odds (sometimes 5-10 times more than private companies would pay) because they have crap procurement processes and crap people driving them. Then you have the crap legal teams who either just don't check contracts or don't understand them which leads to these schedule overuns and escalating costs with no comeback when things don't go to plan.

[voyds9]

Elroy Blue said:

Bandit said:

Elroy Blue said:

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

I think you'll find that its the incompetence of the public sector that allows this to happen without penalty or recourse.

Oh that's right. It's all the 'Public sector's' fault.

I think you'll find that it's Bae taking advantage of the Mod when they know they've got them over a barrel. You don't have to look any further than Nimrod to see just what that company gets up to.

Fool them once shame on you, fool them continually for the last 40 years who is the shame on now.

The civil service does seem to have years worth of experience of the first fortnight at work, they are continually making the same mistakes.

[louiebaby]

Puggit said:

Public sector workers earn £4,000 a year pay premium compared to private staff

The average public sector worker earns nearly £4,000 a year more than a typical private sector worker, official figures revealed yesterday.

The figures emerged days before state workers hold what union leaders hope will be the biggest strikes for a generation.

The Office for National Statistics said the average public sector worker, who works full-time, is paid an annual salary of £28,802.

By comparison, the average full-time worker in the private sector receives a salary of only £25,000, a gap of £3,802.

Everyone's favourite Daily Soovy

If I start poking holes in this, I'll never stop, but surely the Office of National Statistics should know better than to put this kind of "research" into the public domain?

The use of "Average" is hugely misleading, and there are plenty different measurements that fit under this heading.

Also, how come they can calculate the "Average" public sector to £1 accuracy, yet the private sector to £1,000.

It's nothing short of scandalous, but you have to admire their timing...

[cardigankid]

Elroy Blue said:

Bandit said:

Elroy Blue said:

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

I think you'll find that its the incompetence of the public sector that allows this to happen without penalty or recourse.

Oh that's right. It's all the 'Public sector's' fault.

I think you'll find that it's Bae taking advantage of the Mod when they know they've got them over a barrel. You don't have to look any further than Nimrod to see just what that company gets up to.

With respect it's the incompetence of the public sector in signing up to the deal, and bending over the barrel in the first place. Fundamentally, it is not their money and they don't care.

[blueg33]

I work with the public sector on a daily basis - I am staggered on an almost daily basis about their lack of skills, bureaucracy, wastage and general inability to act in a way that would allow them to keep a job in the private sector.

[Sticks.]

Use Psychology said:

The reason for this pay discrepancy is because on average private sector workers are stupider than public sector ones.

HTH

Quite. I get fed up with hearing about the incompetence of the pub sec and the implicit brilliance of the pri sec.

For he last few weeks here new gas mains have been laid. So far, they've burst the water main, cut off people's phones, and electricity, and left a gas leak.

I do appreciate though, that this is the fault of the once-public utility companies, for laying the supplies in exactly the place they'd need to dig years later.

Obviously

It'd be interesting to do a comparison, job for job, quals for quals, once the recession is over.

[NorthernBoy]

Elroy Blue said:

The Public sector would collapse without private companies. I mean, how would the MOD survive without Bae continually bleeding them dry and failing to deliver equipment on time and on budget.

The MOD can choose to go elsewhere for equipment. When we are let down by incompetent police, though, to pick an example at random, we have no similar choice.

[blueg33]

Sticks. said:

I get fed up with hearing about the incompetence of the pub sec and the implicit brilliance of the pri sec.

This weeks public sector lunacy on deals I am doing with them.

Continuing with a deal structure for 2 years that the 3 shortlisted bidders and their advisors all said was unfundable, to find out that it is unfundable. Result cancelled procurement and start again, that'll be another 2 years, circa half a million of public money.

Failure by their supposed specialist to understand his own form of contract where he was advised that it was too complex and did not do what he wanted. Result, unpaid contractors who are now being paid compensation.

Those are just my deals this week. I can list numerous other similar circumstance across the UK. The lack of knowledge of their own documents and deals would get them sacked from any business I have ever worked with.

Here is another eg from last year. A big procurement deal, we prepared all legal docs, our legal bill properly negotiated by us £650k, public sector legal bill on same job £1,200,000. At every legal meeting they had 3 lawyers to our 1. Mostly they said nothing.

Personally I would love it if they were good. I would get deals done faster and cheaper, I would pay less tax and the country would have better services and infrastructure.

I am not tarring all, but I am tarring most.

If I had been told this before I started this job, I really wouldn't have believed it.

We are by no means perfect, but the fact that cock-ups and waste cost us our jobs does focus the mind and we are not even close to the incompetence and total failure to grasp things that we see daily.

I have been cross examined by MP's on things that the public sector has blamed on us only to be totally vindicated by the report whilst the officers of the public sector body in question have been found seriously wanting.

Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 24th November 17:37

Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 24th November 17:42

[Sticks.]

I'm sure you're good at what you do, Blueg33, but so many areas, in both sec's, aren't.

Got a bookcase coming Saturday, 12 weeks in. Last one was rejected, I could have done better myself. Someone did a bad job, no one checked them, retailer didn't bother checking before supplying, problem becomes mine. Time and money wasted.

If that tree surgeon who promised t call me back reads this, don't bother. And to the bathroom fitter, I told you they wouldn't hold that mirror up you idiot, and yes, I know you said it was guaranteed, but it'll be quicker if I do it mysefl.

Yes, I know I have the choice to go somewhere else, but why should I have my time wasted by people obviously incapable tf doing a job to a standard. Better standards all round please.

Btw don't start me off on 'approved repairers', useless.

[Johnnytheboy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Wow, my guys earn less than that and have to work so much harder. I'd love to be able to pay them that much.