Egyptian Elections

[Jimbeaux]

Some seem excited, others are cynical. The once outlawed Muslim Brotherhood seems in the lead. I wonder how their version of Democracy will look?

“I know these elections don’t mean anything, but I am still going.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/world/middleeast...

[Elroy Blue]

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

[Mikeyboy]

Even if the Muslim Brotherhood geta bit militant, and despite being banned and having some "interesting" members and indeed founders they have mostly calmed down the islamic fundamentalism.
We'll see what they end up like when they have some power though.

I always think though. Contain a fanatic country and the people in that country will eventually get tired of not being able to do anything, well normal, let alone free.

[Du1point8]

Hmmm I was thinking that the first round would be locked away, 2nd round in Jan, 3rd round in March and only then would the votes start to be counted?

That was info coming from some egyptians that live out there.

[Caulkhead]

Elroy Blue said:

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

You can't promote democracy only where you're bound to like the result. Finally the people in these countries will be responsible for who governs them, good or bad.

[Du1point8]

Caulkhead said:

Elroy Blue said:

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

You can't promote democracy only where you're bound to like the result. Finally the people in these countries will be responsible for who governs them, good or bad.

issue out there is that the army have said they get the final choice on any decision made and can put their own laws in place... in addition they get to decide exactly who gets into power there... that will need to change first.

[Jimbeaux]

Elroy Blue said:

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

Sadly, I feel you are correct.

[Jimbeaux]

Du1point8 said:

Caulkhead said:

Elroy Blue said:

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

You can't promote democracy only where you're bound to like the result. Finally the people in these countries will be responsible for who governs them, good or bad.

issue out there is that the army have said they get the final choice on any decision made and can put their own laws in place... in addition they get to decide exactly who gets into power there... that will need to change first.

I must have missed that bit. I heard the military saying they wanted no say. Pretty sure that is all rhetoric, but said nonetheless.

[Du1point8]

Jimbeaux said:

Du1point8 said:

Caulkhead said:

Elroy Blue said:

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

You can't promote democracy only where you're bound to like the result. Finally the people in these countries will be responsible for who governs them, good or bad.

issue out there is that the army have said they get the final choice on any decision made and can put their own laws in place... in addition they get to decide exactly who gets into power there... that will need to change first.

I must have missed that bit. I heard the military saying they wanted no say. Pretty sure that is all rhetoric, but said nonetheless.

OH is living in Cairo and through the embassies she has lots of friends that are egyptian... UN has warned all staff to stay away from any of the voting centres as they will be arrested for observing and be held for an unknown period of time.

[Jimbeaux]

Du1point8 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Du1point8 said:

Caulkhead said:

Elroy Blue said:

Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Syria failing and Iraq cosying up to Iran. This will not end well and all those secular people who demanded the removal of Mubarak in Egypt are in for a shock.

You can't promote democracy only where you're bound to like the result. Finally the people in these countries will be responsible for who governs them, good or bad.

issue out there is that the army have said they get the final choice on any decision made and can put their own laws in place... in addition they get to decide exactly who gets into power there... that will need to change first.

I must have missed that bit. I heard the military saying they wanted no say. Pretty sure that is all rhetoric, but said nonetheless.

OH is living in Cairo and through the embassies she has lots of friends that are egyptian... UN has warned all staff to stay away from any of the voting centres as they will be arrested for observing and be held for an unknown period of time.

I saw a Congressman in observance on the news. I suppose that is "controlled".

[12gauge]

Good for them. Maybe once the morons controlling US and UK foreign policy see's they'll vote for the most militant islamist choice available and they actually don't want a liberal democracy, even when given that option, we'll stop invading these countries/funding or provoking uprisings.

[Mikeyboy]

12gauge said:

Good for them. Maybe once the morons controlling US and UK foreign policy see's they'll vote for the most militant islamist choice available and they actually don't want a liberal democracy, even when given that option, we'll stop invading these countries/funding or provoking uprisings.

I think we have a funny idea that people like democracy because it gives you a chance to change your government if you don't like it.
Problem with that is people don't actually like change, they like stability. Democracy to someone with only a sketchy idea of what it means represents constant change, whereas the way of Islam is a constant, unchnging thing.

We should hardly be surprised if they like to use democracy against what we think its for.

[Muntu]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/middleeast...

NYT said:

CAIRO — Islamists claimed a decisive victory on Wednesday as early election results put them on track to win a dominant majority in Egypt’s first Parliament since the ouster of Hosni Mubarak, the most significant step yet in the religious movement’s rise since the start of the Arab Spring

The party formed by the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s mainstream Islamist group, appeared to have taken about 40 percent of the vote, as expected. But a big surprise was the strong showing of ultraconservative Islamists, called Salafis, many of whom see most popular entertainment as sinful and reject women’s participation in voting or public life.

Analysts in the state-run news media said early returns indicated that Salafi groups could take as much as a quarter of the vote, giving the two groups of Islamists combined control of nearly 65 percent of the parliamentary seats.

Some people just never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Can't say I am surprised though...

[Jimbeaux]

Muntu said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/middleeast...

NYT said:

CAIRO — Islamists claimed a decisive victory on Wednesday as early election results put them on track to win a dominant majority in Egypt’s first Parliament since the ouster of Hosni Mubarak, the most significant step yet in the religious movement’s rise since the start of the Arab Spring

The party formed by the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s mainstream Islamist group, appeared to have taken about 40 percent of the vote, as expected. But a big surprise was the strong showing of ultraconservative Islamists, called Salafis, many of whom see most popular entertainment as sinful and reject women’s participation in voting or public life.

Analysts in the state-run news media said early returns indicated that Salafi groups could take as much as a quarter of the vote, giving the two groups of Islamists combined control of nearly 65 percent of the parliamentary seats.

Some people just never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Can't say I am surprised though...

That is why I started this thread; not exactly an "I told you so" topicbut close.

[Mikeyboy]

Jimbeaux said:

That is why I started this thread; not exactly an "I told you so" topicbut close.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. contain their desire to export terrorism but otherwise leave them to it. The best cure for a country that wants extremism as a method of rule is to let them have it. It'll soon put them off the idea for a long time to come.

Oh and they're not Afghanistan, most of the population have seen the benfits of education and technology and so won't ike being moved forceably back to the middle ages.

[Muntu]

Mikeyboy said:

... most of the population have seen the benfits of education and technology and so won't ike being moved forceably back to the middle ages.

Er, that is what most of the population have just voted for by all accounts.

[Jimbeaux]

Muntu said:

Mikeyboy said:

... most of the population have seen the benfits of education and technology and so won't ike being moved forceably back to the middle ages.

Er, that is what most of the population have just voted for by all accounts.

Yep. We kept hearing how they are too educated, etc. for any of that, that the brotherhood will not get too large a slice of the pie, etc. I could still be wrong and genuinely hope that am; however, I wager I am not.

[Mikeyboy]

Muntu said:

Mikeyboy said:

... most of the population have seen the benfits of education and technology and so won't ike being moved forceably back to the middle ages.

Er, that is what most of the population have just voted for by all accounts.

I can't remember if it was this thread or another where I wrote that democracy brings an option for constant change whereas most people don't actually like that. If it was here, see that post for why they would still vote for the Muslim Brotherhood.
If not what I am saying here then is that a populace inexperienced in democracy that is newly offered such a gift will turn to the thing they know as stability. Islam. Islam not being a religion as Judeao Christians see religion, but a way of life. So far they have lived in Egypt in a secular islmic society with sharia law running alongside the law of the state.
That means the educated and liberal do not have to follow sharia if they don't want. They however might think they want it also as State law because they think it brings stability and will calm unrest but when it is imposed on them for a number of years they will be pretty sure it isn't what they want, not having a choice over the stoning of your daughter because her boyfriend turns out to be married might make you think twice.
This is what I was driving at.