A private sector employee's point of view
Discussion
Ive had a brief read of the epic 'public sector point of view' thread, i havent had time to read it all but i'd like to make a few points.
I work in the private sector and have done most of my working life of a mere 10 years but did have just over 18 months in the public sector working for the Job Centre a couple of years ago. I dont want to start a fight over who's more worthy because the fact is both sectors do need each other but i found there are fundamental differences in Management and the attitude/mentality of the people employeed in each sector.
When i worked for the Job Centre i'll admit the pay was pretty ordinary but i was still staggered when at Christmas, people were arranging their Christmas around the assumption of a bonus which hadnt been agreed or announced. A union actually told its members to turn down a bonus of around £300 and demand more. This was about the time Woolworths was going to the wall and I was sat there astonished that in time of deep recession people would turn down £300 that they didnt earn. A bonus was treated like a right, nothing performance related just 'i deserve a bonus for turning up.' Structure is totally different, in the private sector you're shown the exit if you're incompetant, in the public sector you get promoted to get you out of the way, usually to an office on your own which by association is a higher position. You then end up with the incompetant people organising things - badly. I found the general culture to be alien to me, some people felt because the wage was terrible they shouldnt bother working hard, others had been there 30 years and still didnt know basic ins and outs of the benefits about which they were advising. If you make a massive mistake you get 'retrained' where as in the private sector you get sacked.
However 'public sector' is extremely broad. Our paramedics, nurses, firefighters, police, armed forces etc are vital, they do jobs which take guts and we should be eternally grateful for the quality of our emergency services in this country. However plenty of the people on strike are penpushers who are seeing a reduced pension and im sorry but i have to ask what is the big deal? They are complaining about being limited to a 1% pay rise when plenty of people in the private sector havent seen one for years. They're complaining about a reduced pension when they're still far better off than most in the private can expect. A teacher on £30,000 complaining about a reduced pension in 20 years time is tasteless and crass in my view in times of high unemployment. What also baffles me is how so many people seem to think their current job will be their only job, i saw an interview on BBC with a woman of 20 complaining about raising the retirement age by saying 'im a hairdresser and my wrists have already had it, how can i do this job on my feet at 68?' and i just think 'get a different job then!!' Ive done several different types of work, car cleaner, credit controller, asset management, benefits advisor, selling shoes...all sorts!
Since we fell into recession plenty of people now feel the right to go on strike. Royal Mail did it which resulted in unemployed peoples job applications arriving late. Train drivers did it which resulted in people not being able to get to work or attend interviews. What i cannot support is the disruption these strikes cause. I know people who earn less than a teacher with no pension to speak of who were forced to take an unpaid day off to look after children because of these strikes. Explain to me how that is right and fair. People get laid off in the private sector daily and lose all their income and face an uncertain future, they dont have anybody to strike against and nor do they go on BBC news crying about it. If i got a 1% pay rise you wouldnt see me outside holding a sign. Thousands got laid off from BT not long ago but did anybody notice or care? They lost a lot more than someone with a guaranteed payrise next year.
The only reason i ended up at the JCP was through being made redundant from a job which paid more than double what the JCP job was worth. I lost £36,000 a year income straight away. I didnt have anybody to strike against or any Union to help me yet these people are going on strike because they have a guaranteed job and pension? Give me a break. In my view theres plenty at the dole que who'd be grateful to have a job and would be willing to shut up and go to work in times of high unemployment and recession. The other problem is the sanctimonious attitude that some strikers are are portraying as they appear to feel 100% of private sector workers are rich bankers on £200k a year. It might astound them to learn theres people in private jobs earning £15k with no pension who had to take a day off because of their strike.
The next argument is 'we work really hard!' when outside of the emergency services im not sure thats true, no harder than anybody else anyway. I know people in public sector jobs with 28 days holiday a year BEFORE including bank holidays. They get Maundy Thursday, The Queens Birthday and all other sorts of days/half days off. When i worked at JCP it was common place for mothers to leave at 3.30pm, what private sector job would let you do that? Some public sector jobs include an extra day off in December for Christmas shopping. Im sorry but thats practically part time.
In times of high unemployment, to see people with guaranteed jobs going on strike and impacting those worse off is crude, crass and wrong.
Martin
I work in the private sector and have done most of my working life of a mere 10 years but did have just over 18 months in the public sector working for the Job Centre a couple of years ago. I dont want to start a fight over who's more worthy because the fact is both sectors do need each other but i found there are fundamental differences in Management and the attitude/mentality of the people employeed in each sector.
When i worked for the Job Centre i'll admit the pay was pretty ordinary but i was still staggered when at Christmas, people were arranging their Christmas around the assumption of a bonus which hadnt been agreed or announced. A union actually told its members to turn down a bonus of around £300 and demand more. This was about the time Woolworths was going to the wall and I was sat there astonished that in time of deep recession people would turn down £300 that they didnt earn. A bonus was treated like a right, nothing performance related just 'i deserve a bonus for turning up.' Structure is totally different, in the private sector you're shown the exit if you're incompetant, in the public sector you get promoted to get you out of the way, usually to an office on your own which by association is a higher position. You then end up with the incompetant people organising things - badly. I found the general culture to be alien to me, some people felt because the wage was terrible they shouldnt bother working hard, others had been there 30 years and still didnt know basic ins and outs of the benefits about which they were advising. If you make a massive mistake you get 'retrained' where as in the private sector you get sacked.
However 'public sector' is extremely broad. Our paramedics, nurses, firefighters, police, armed forces etc are vital, they do jobs which take guts and we should be eternally grateful for the quality of our emergency services in this country. However plenty of the people on strike are penpushers who are seeing a reduced pension and im sorry but i have to ask what is the big deal? They are complaining about being limited to a 1% pay rise when plenty of people in the private sector havent seen one for years. They're complaining about a reduced pension when they're still far better off than most in the private can expect. A teacher on £30,000 complaining about a reduced pension in 20 years time is tasteless and crass in my view in times of high unemployment. What also baffles me is how so many people seem to think their current job will be their only job, i saw an interview on BBC with a woman of 20 complaining about raising the retirement age by saying 'im a hairdresser and my wrists have already had it, how can i do this job on my feet at 68?' and i just think 'get a different job then!!' Ive done several different types of work, car cleaner, credit controller, asset management, benefits advisor, selling shoes...all sorts!
Since we fell into recession plenty of people now feel the right to go on strike. Royal Mail did it which resulted in unemployed peoples job applications arriving late. Train drivers did it which resulted in people not being able to get to work or attend interviews. What i cannot support is the disruption these strikes cause. I know people who earn less than a teacher with no pension to speak of who were forced to take an unpaid day off to look after children because of these strikes. Explain to me how that is right and fair. People get laid off in the private sector daily and lose all their income and face an uncertain future, they dont have anybody to strike against and nor do they go on BBC news crying about it. If i got a 1% pay rise you wouldnt see me outside holding a sign. Thousands got laid off from BT not long ago but did anybody notice or care? They lost a lot more than someone with a guaranteed payrise next year.
The only reason i ended up at the JCP was through being made redundant from a job which paid more than double what the JCP job was worth. I lost £36,000 a year income straight away. I didnt have anybody to strike against or any Union to help me yet these people are going on strike because they have a guaranteed job and pension? Give me a break. In my view theres plenty at the dole que who'd be grateful to have a job and would be willing to shut up and go to work in times of high unemployment and recession. The other problem is the sanctimonious attitude that some strikers are are portraying as they appear to feel 100% of private sector workers are rich bankers on £200k a year. It might astound them to learn theres people in private jobs earning £15k with no pension who had to take a day off because of their strike.
The next argument is 'we work really hard!' when outside of the emergency services im not sure thats true, no harder than anybody else anyway. I know people in public sector jobs with 28 days holiday a year BEFORE including bank holidays. They get Maundy Thursday, The Queens Birthday and all other sorts of days/half days off. When i worked at JCP it was common place for mothers to leave at 3.30pm, what private sector job would let you do that? Some public sector jobs include an extra day off in December for Christmas shopping. Im sorry but thats practically part time.
In times of high unemployment, to see people with guaranteed jobs going on strike and impacting those worse off is crude, crass and wrong.
Martin
Couldn't agree more chap!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15987204
Similarly Clarkson is a absolute hero for these comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15987204
Similarly Clarkson is a absolute hero for these comments
Yay, another 'race to the bottom' thread.
Stop worrying about other people and concentrate on your own success and, more importantly, happiness.
There was a time when the British dreamt and realised an empire. Now they just want their neighbour to be poorer than they are. Utterly pathetic, and a contributing reason to the country's decline.
Stop worrying about other people and concentrate on your own success and, more importantly, happiness.
There was a time when the British dreamt and realised an empire. Now they just want their neighbour to be poorer than they are. Utterly pathetic, and a contributing reason to the country's decline.
Bing o said:
Yay, another 'race to the bottom' thread.
Stop worrying about other people and concentrate on your own success and, more importantly, happiness.
There was a time when the British dreamt and realised an empire. Now they just want their neighbour to be poorer than they are. Utterly pathetic, and a contributing reason to the country's decline.
No, we just want people to stop moaning about being poor when they're actually substantially better off than most of the population. Stop worrying about other people and concentrate on your own success and, more importantly, happiness.
There was a time when the British dreamt and realised an empire. Now they just want their neighbour to be poorer than they are. Utterly pathetic, and a contributing reason to the country's decline.
"STFU and Carry On"
Just for balance:
Again, not limited to the public sector.
Whilst I agree that these cuts have to be made, you can't really blame people for being unhappy that they are worse off.
martin84 said:
When i worked for the Job Centre i'll admit the pay was pretty ordinary but i was still staggered when at Christmas, people were arranging their Christmas around the assumption of a bonus which hadnt been agreed or announced.
I've worked for two large private organisations (an investment company and a high street bank) where this has happened. I knew one bloke who even put a deposit on a new TVR on the assumption that his (unannounced) bonus would cover it.martin84 said:
A bonus was treated like a right, nothing performance related just 'i deserve a bonus for turning up.'
Again, not limited to the public sector.
martin84 said:
I know people in public sector jobs with 28 days holiday a year BEFORE including bank holidays.
When I worked for the high street bank I got 30 days leave a year, so it's not only the public sector.martin84 said:
When i worked at JCP it was common place for mothers to leave at 3.30pm, what private sector job would let you do that?
Plenty- if you ask by law they have to consider it and give you a good reason if they don't allow it.martin84 said:
Some public sector jobs include an extra day off in December for Christmas shopping. Im sorry but thats practically part time.
I've had that too, in two different private sector jobs.Whilst I agree that these cuts have to be made, you can't really blame people for being unhappy that they are worse off.
I've also had similar benefits (favourable holidays, final salary pension, sports and social facilities etc) in the private sector, the difference being that it was 25 years ago, and these types of working conditions have long since been "renegotiated". I don't blame the public sector for doing their best to hold onto them, but the UK cannot compete with other countries with these public sector costs still in place
I worked out that to get my pension up to my in-laws and sister's levels who are all teachers and will retire at 55 (if they are unlucky) I would have to pay 25% of my current salary into a pension and, most importantly, hope that my pension manager doesn't piss it all up the wall like he has done since 2007.
And thats not to end up on my final salary, that to get what I think will be a final salary for them, i.e. and index linked £35k equivalent.
Thats why I can't stand them going on strike over a 2% difference in their wage packet.
And thats not to end up on my final salary, that to get what I think will be a final salary for them, i.e. and index linked £35k equivalent.
Thats why I can't stand them going on strike over a 2% difference in their wage packet.
Alfa numeric said:
Plenty- if you ask by law they have to consider it and give you a good reason if they don't allow it.
Perhaps but the difference is if you said at the interview stage you want to leave at 3.30 in most cases that puts you further down the pile when it comes to reviewing candidates. If you're on fixed term contracts and you do end up with this sort of deal the likelyhood is come renewal time you wont be there any longer.ALfa numeric said:
Again, not limited to the public sector.
I didnt say it was exclusive to the public sector but its certainly more commonplace in the public rather than private.Alfa numeric said:
I've worked for two large private organisations (an investment company and a high street bank) where this has happened. I knew one bloke who even put a deposit on a new TVR on the assumption that his (unannounced) bonus would cover it
Yeah well Banks dont count 
My point wasnt about the assumption of bonus but the fact that people were told by their Union to turn it down and demand more when we were in the worst part of the recession. I found that to be in poor taste. Alfa numeric said:
you can't really blame people for being unhappy that they are worse off.
I agree. However i do object to people in a decent financial position going on strike with x million unemployed and another recession on the way. My point is theres plenty of people in the private sector who will be worse off but they're not marching in the street, going on strike or moaning on BBC News. They're just getting on with it.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff