Job Seekers Allowance - massive inefficiency and waste
Discussion
Over the last few weeks my eyes have really been opened to the massive amount of waste involved in government processes. I 'signed on' over the phone, explaining that I had finished work a week and a half before so wanted to back-date my claim to that date. The lady on the phone explained that this was a problem as you are supposed to call them as soon as you finish work and they only backdate in exceptional circumstances but she would put it through and see what happened. This phone call took half an hour (to an 0800 number luckily) and I was told to go to my local Job Centre 2 days later, this involves a 40 mile round trip, plus parking at about £3 per hour.
I attended my meeting as requested, which took about 10 minutes and was sent on my way with various bits of paper explaining what I had to do next. Fast forward to yesterday and a letter arrives saying they were unable to backdate my claim as I did not meet the set criteria so I called the helpline and after 10 mins on hold I was told that the only way to contest this decision was to take a hard copy letter to the JC, where they will send it BY FAX to another processing centre to look into. They suggest doing it this way as if you fill in the official form it takes 2 weeks to deal with, but writing a letter goes through a different process and is much quicker.
I went in today for my scheduled appointment only to be told that my claim had been closed as I had missed my last scheduled visit. I was meant to go in 1 week after the initial meeting but this was not explained to me, just written on a piece of paper and had been booked for a day when I had an interview 80 miles away so I could never have made it in the first place. They don't tell you that the claim has been closed, they just shut it down and that's it. You may be thinking 'why should they, it's your mistake' however I now have to go through the whole process AGAIN! Another 30 minutes on the phone to their freephone number, another initial meeting, then normal appointments every fortnight. They will still pay from the first date but need to go through all the processes again to re-open it.
How on earth is this a lean and efficient process?! Every single person I have dealt with has been extremely friendly and helpful but they seem to be working to utterly archaic practices building in waste at every opportunity. The woman in the JC today had all my details on screen, but was unable to do anything to re-activate the claim, so I had to phone a call centre for them to do it, then I have to go back in next week and see the same woman again, taking up another appointment time when she is being paid for by the taxpayer.
You could easily take 50% of the manual handling out of this system without even trying that hard, and with no impact on security/fraud prevention, and this is for a simple JSA claim with nothing else on top. I dread to think of the complexity involved if I was trying to claim for anything else as well!
I attended my meeting as requested, which took about 10 minutes and was sent on my way with various bits of paper explaining what I had to do next. Fast forward to yesterday and a letter arrives saying they were unable to backdate my claim as I did not meet the set criteria so I called the helpline and after 10 mins on hold I was told that the only way to contest this decision was to take a hard copy letter to the JC, where they will send it BY FAX to another processing centre to look into. They suggest doing it this way as if you fill in the official form it takes 2 weeks to deal with, but writing a letter goes through a different process and is much quicker.
I went in today for my scheduled appointment only to be told that my claim had been closed as I had missed my last scheduled visit. I was meant to go in 1 week after the initial meeting but this was not explained to me, just written on a piece of paper and had been booked for a day when I had an interview 80 miles away so I could never have made it in the first place. They don't tell you that the claim has been closed, they just shut it down and that's it. You may be thinking 'why should they, it's your mistake' however I now have to go through the whole process AGAIN! Another 30 minutes on the phone to their freephone number, another initial meeting, then normal appointments every fortnight. They will still pay from the first date but need to go through all the processes again to re-open it.
How on earth is this a lean and efficient process?! Every single person I have dealt with has been extremely friendly and helpful but they seem to be working to utterly archaic practices building in waste at every opportunity. The woman in the JC today had all my details on screen, but was unable to do anything to re-activate the claim, so I had to phone a call centre for them to do it, then I have to go back in next week and see the same woman again, taking up another appointment time when she is being paid for by the taxpayer.
You could easily take 50% of the manual handling out of this system without even trying that hard, and with no impact on security/fraud prevention, and this is for a simple JSA claim with nothing else on top. I dread to think of the complexity involved if I was trying to claim for anything else as well!
jamiebae said:
Over the last few weeks my eyes have really been opened to the massive amount of waste involved in government processes. I 'signed on' over the phone, explaining that I had finished work a week and a half before so wanted to back-date my claim to that date. The lady on the phone explained that this was a problem as you are supposed to call them as soon as you finish work and they only backdate in exceptional circumstances but she would put it through and see what happened. This phone call took half an hour (to an 0800 number luckily) and I was told to go to my local Job Centre 2 days later, this involves a 40 mile round trip, plus parking at about £3 per hour.
I attended my meeting as requested, which took about 10 minutes and was sent on my way with various bits of paper explaining what I had to do next. Fast forward to yesterday and a letter arrives saying they were unable to backdate my claim as I did not meet the set criteria so I called the helpline and after 10 mins on hold I was told that the only way to contest this decision was to take a hard copy letter to the JC, where they will send it BY FAX to another processing centre to look into. They suggest doing it this way as if you fill in the official form it takes 2 weeks to deal with, but writing a letter goes through a different process and is much quicker.
I went in today for my scheduled appointment only to be told that my claim had been closed as I had missed my last scheduled visit. I was meant to go in 1 week after the initial meeting but this was not explained to me, just written on a piece of paper and had been booked for a day when I had an interview 80 miles away so I could never have made it in the first place. They don't tell you that the claim has been closed, they just shut it down and that's it. You may be thinking 'why should they, it's your mistake' however I now have to go through the whole process AGAIN! Another 30 minutes on the phone to their freephone number, another initial meeting, then normal appointments every fortnight. They will still pay from the first date but need to go through all the processes again to re-open it.
How on earth is this a lean and efficient process?! Every single person I have dealt with has been extremely friendly and helpful but they seem to be working to utterly archaic practices building in waste at every opportunity. The woman in the JC today had all my details on screen, but was unable to do anything to re-activate the claim, so I had to phone a call centre for them to do it, then I have to go back in next week and see the same woman again, taking up another appointment time when she is being paid for by the taxpayer.
You could easily take 50% of the manual handling out of this system without even trying that hard, and with no impact on security/fraud prevention, and this is for a simple JSA claim with nothing else on top. I dread to think of the complexity involved if I was trying to claim for anything else as well!
They make you phone because call centre staff are cheaper than advisers, you signed to say you accept when you're next appointment is. Claims for other benefits are not handled by the jobcentre. I attended my meeting as requested, which took about 10 minutes and was sent on my way with various bits of paper explaining what I had to do next. Fast forward to yesterday and a letter arrives saying they were unable to backdate my claim as I did not meet the set criteria so I called the helpline and after 10 mins on hold I was told that the only way to contest this decision was to take a hard copy letter to the JC, where they will send it BY FAX to another processing centre to look into. They suggest doing it this way as if you fill in the official form it takes 2 weeks to deal with, but writing a letter goes through a different process and is much quicker.
I went in today for my scheduled appointment only to be told that my claim had been closed as I had missed my last scheduled visit. I was meant to go in 1 week after the initial meeting but this was not explained to me, just written on a piece of paper and had been booked for a day when I had an interview 80 miles away so I could never have made it in the first place. They don't tell you that the claim has been closed, they just shut it down and that's it. You may be thinking 'why should they, it's your mistake' however I now have to go through the whole process AGAIN! Another 30 minutes on the phone to their freephone number, another initial meeting, then normal appointments every fortnight. They will still pay from the first date but need to go through all the processes again to re-open it.
How on earth is this a lean and efficient process?! Every single person I have dealt with has been extremely friendly and helpful but they seem to be working to utterly archaic practices building in waste at every opportunity. The woman in the JC today had all my details on screen, but was unable to do anything to re-activate the claim, so I had to phone a call centre for them to do it, then I have to go back in next week and see the same woman again, taking up another appointment time when she is being paid for by the taxpayer.
You could easily take 50% of the manual handling out of this system without even trying that hard, and with no impact on security/fraud prevention, and this is for a simple JSA claim with nothing else on top. I dread to think of the complexity involved if I was trying to claim for anything else as well!
obob said:
They make you phone because call centre staff are cheaper than advisers, you signed to say you accept when you're next appointment is. Claims for other benefits are not handled by the jobcentre.
I fully accept it's my mistake not going to the appointment, but it seems insane that they close the whole file down and make you start from square one again, including the extra initial consultation meeting and half hour phone call, rather than having a much simpler re-activation process. They're still going to pay it from the first start date too so no money is saved there either!jamiebae said:
I fully accept it's my mistake not going to the appointment, but it seems insane that they close the whole file down and make you start from square one again, including the extra initial consultation meeting and half hour phone call, rather than having a much simpler re-activation process. They're still going to pay it from the first start date too so no money is saved there either!
You shouldn't have to do it all again, you can do a rapid reclaim if restart the claim within 28 days so not sure what happened.obob said:
Zod said:
You fool! You made the mistake of Seeking a Job, going for an interview and missing your date with bureaucracy. You are clearly not suitable for Jobseeker's Allowance - you need to be a workshy, feckless piece of dolescum.
No he just needs to tell them.i got made redundant in 2008 on a friday, i said to mrs 400 ill give it a week before i sign as i was thinking it ll not take long find a job theres loads.........
Week passes no job so ring to sign on and got interigated < spelt wrong im sure of it. as to why i hadnt rang up asap, explained about looking for work she said the same ill apply for it to be back dated for you etc etc, week passes i get a letter saying my claim for back date has been denied as looking for a job and not claiming anything is not a good enough reason for back dating my benefits.
SHAMBLES
Week passes no job so ring to sign on and got interigated < spelt wrong im sure of it. as to why i hadnt rang up asap, explained about looking for work she said the same ill apply for it to be back dated for you etc etc, week passes i get a letter saying my claim for back date has been denied as looking for a job and not claiming anything is not a good enough reason for back dating my benefits.
SHAMBLES
obob said:
You shouldn't have to do it all again, you can do a rapid reclaim if restart the claim within 28 days so not sure what happened.
I did do a 'rapid' re-claim, it still took half an hour on the phone (well actually 27 minutes, I just checked the call register) and I still have to go for the initial meeting and take all my ID and documents with me as I did last time, so the 'rapid' bit of it seems to save circa 5 minutes on the phone and that's about it. I have no issue at all with the people I've dealt with, they work in an utterly hideous environment having to deal with the full spectrum of society's scummiest depths and are amazingly cheerful and helpful considering that, but even they seem exasperated that accidentally missing one appointment sends you all the way back to square 1.
On the plus side, they will pay my mileage travelling to interviews, which is extremely useful as I have a 250 mile round trip to one of them!
Zod said:
You fool! You made the mistake of Seeking a Job, going for an interview and missing your date with bureaucracy. You are clearly not suitable for Jobseeker's Allowance - you need to be a workshy, feckless piece of dolescum.
the job centre is more about keeping job centre staff employed I fearBoRED S2upid said:
To play devils advocate im sure there would be many a thread if they didn't make you jump through a few hoops and just dished out the cash on one call and no interviews.
Absolutely, but there's a balance to be struck here. There is no dispute about the fact I'm not working, they have been supplied with the redundancy letter and all relevant docs to prove it. I'm claiming the basic, non-means tested allowance as my wife works so nothing complex there either. My issue is that because I missed a 5 minute signing on session I have to start again from the beginning, meaning more time for JC staff dealing with me on the phone and in person, and more documents being issued. This doubles the cost of processing my claim, but with no benefit to anybody, other than the interest the DWP is earning from my £67.50 a week for the extra few weeks it's sitting in their account and not mine.I was out of work for 3 weeks once. I went in to the job centre and asked to see some relevant jobs. They told me that they couldn't show me any jobs until I had signed on. I told them I didn't want the dole, I wanted work. They said that that's not the way they do things.
I walked out and found work myself.
A complete and utter waste of time.
I walked out and found work myself.
A complete and utter waste of time.
I was out of work for 3 months and my own feeling is i could never take money from job seekers allowance due to the label it has for me. I sold my car to get a banger, I took any cash job going, whilst travelling many miles a week to look for jobs.
I ate cheap food and lived like a hermit, eventually finding a job 3 months later. The thing that really motivated not to sign on, is just looking at the people hanging outside. I had debts and no real savings to fall back on but determination kept me from falling back on the state for 56 quid a week, which will barely fill half a tank.
I ate cheap food and lived like a hermit, eventually finding a job 3 months later. The thing that really motivated not to sign on, is just looking at the people hanging outside. I had debts and no real savings to fall back on but determination kept me from falling back on the state for 56 quid a week, which will barely fill half a tank.
Mojocvh said:
"On the plus side, they will pay my mileage travelling to interviews, which is extremely useful as I have a 250 mile round trip to one of them!"
But not in advance and ONLY after they contact your nominated "person" at the interview to say you actually turned up.
Indeed, have given them details of the agency who have organised it. The woman there said a lot of people are uncomfortable with the JC phoning perspective employers, so they can speak to agencies to confirm if needed. Thankfully I don't need the cash in advance, it's just nice not to have to pay £50 on petrol out of my own pocket.But not in advance and ONLY after they contact your nominated "person" at the interview to say you actually turned up.
As for the stigma of JSA, absolutely I'd rather not be claiming, and probably wouldn't have bothered under most circumstances but I have insurance that pays my mortgage once my pay in lieu of notice finishes in a couple of months and it won't pay out unless I'm registered as unemployed and claiming JSA so I might as well do it now just in case. It's certainly a bit of an eye opener to a lot of public sector stuff, as someone who has been in the more capitalist end of the private sector all my career!
It's all quite easy really.
1. On the first day you are out of work you telephone them. You don't ring them up after a couple of weeks, and say "Honest Guv, I ain't been workin' for 2 weeks, so back date will u mate"
2. When they give you an apoointment you attend. You dont simply not turn up, then contact them when you feel like it, and say "Well I was at an interview pal, just believe me ok"
It's ever so simple, and saves so much hassle, paperwork, and more importantly, the cost to the taxpayer of the extra staff required to process all the people who are trying to screw the system.
1. On the first day you are out of work you telephone them. You don't ring them up after a couple of weeks, and say "Honest Guv, I ain't been workin' for 2 weeks, so back date will u mate"
2. When they give you an apoointment you attend. You dont simply not turn up, then contact them when you feel like it, and say "Well I was at an interview pal, just believe me ok"
It's ever so simple, and saves so much hassle, paperwork, and more importantly, the cost to the taxpayer of the extra staff required to process all the people who are trying to screw the system.
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