Credit card charges to be banned.

[hornetrider]

Up yours, O'Leary.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8974365/C...

[Ozzie Osmond]

Excellent news!

Hopefully a broader cap on Ticketmaster's outrageous charges next....

[JontyR]

This is just stupid!!

I do believe cc charges are fair and just within reason! (please note within reason)

I get charged 23p per transaction but also a fee to take a payment over the phone. This is something I accept so don't make an additional charge

For cc though I get charged approx 2% depending on the card I take. I also have a surcharge on taking payments where customer not present. This can be extortionate, depending on the type of card. Some of the charge cards in the states can cost up to 5%!!!!

On an item of £1000 I have been charged almost £100 just to take the payment, and I have no way of knowing prior to charging the card.

So you the customer obviously want to use the cc rather than a dc. This is because you want to collect cash back/points or maybe you want the added insurance or even you just don't have the cash at that time....

So why should I pay for that? Or do I add it to the price on a cross the board which would mean everyone would have to pay for you to use your cc. Same with paypal. That can cost 4.5%

[confused_buyer]

It doesn't seem to be 100% clear as some have changed the initially reported "all credit card fees to be beanned" to if you read it carefully this is about "excessive" charges. There doesn't seem to be anything to prevent the cost being passed on so if, like many people, you make no charge for debit cards but charge 2.5% to cover your costs for credit cards this may still be possible.

The likes of Ryanair charging £50 for one payment transaction where their cost is about 10p is where it will hit.

Of course, even good old HMG charge a surcharge for credit cars so if they want all payment charges made equal perhaps they'd like to start at home.

Edited by confused_buyer on Friday 23 December 12:47

[paddyhasneeds]

JontyR said:

This is just stupid!!

I do believe cc charges are fair and just within reason! (please note within reason)

I think the think they're trying to curb is the ones that aren't within reason. If you're selling an item for £1000 and the credit card company will charge £100 for the transaction it's common sense to me that either you pass on the £100 or the item becomes £1100 - though how the hell you're supposed
to do that when it's only £1100 if you're paid by, say, Amex, but it's £1100.20 if paid on a debit card?

The issue I believe is companies like Ryanair where you're paying maybe £10 on a £50 ticket just because you're paying using a card - the charge to you almost certainly doesn't represent the cost to them.

[Mojooo]

The real issue is that the significant extra is added on later - therefore they can advertise something at £50 even though it may actually cost £60 to buy it on a credit card.

[Oakey]

JontyR said:

This is just stupid!!

I do believe cc charges are fair and just within reason! (please note within reason)

I get charged 23p per transaction but also a fee to take a payment over the phone. This is something I accept so don't make an additional charge

For cc though I get charged approx 2% depending on the card I take. I also have a surcharge on taking payments where customer not present. This can be extortionate, depending on the type of card. Some of the charge cards in the states can cost up to 5%!!!!

On an item of £1000 I have been charged almost £100 just to take the payment, and I have no way of knowing prior to charging the card.

So you the customer obviously want to use the cc rather than a dc. This is because you want to collect cash back/points or maybe you want the added insurance or even you just don't have the cash at that time....

So why should I pay for that? Or do I add it to the price on a cross the board which would mean everyone would have to pay for you to use your cc. Same with paypal. That can cost 4.5%

Because those are the rates at which you agreed with your card provider in exchange for them giving you the ability to take card payments in the same way your bank no doubt charges you for any cheques, etc you bank?

[turbobloke]

Apprently, Ryanair is already claiming their fee doesn't fall under the guidelines issued by the Government because it's an 'admin fee' not a credit card surcharge.

[mrmr96]

Oakey said:

JontyR said:

This is just stupid!!

I do believe cc charges are fair and just within reason! (please note within reason)

I get charged 23p per transaction but also a fee to take a payment over the phone. This is something I accept so don't make an additional charge

For cc though I get charged approx 2% depending on the card I take. I also have a surcharge on taking payments where customer not present. This can be extortionate, depending on the type of card. Some of the charge cards in the states can cost up to 5%!!!!

On an item of £1000 I have been charged almost £100 just to take the payment, and I have no way of knowing prior to charging the card.

So you the customer obviously want to use the cc rather than a dc. This is because you want to collect cash back/points or maybe you want the added insurance or even you just don't have the cash at that time....

So why should I pay for that? Or do I add it to the price on a cross the board which would mean everyone would have to pay for you to use your cc. Same with paypal. That can cost 4.5%

Because those are the rates at which you agreed with your card provider in exchange for them giving you the ability to take card payments in the same way your bank no doubt charges you for any cheques, etc you bank?

Exactly. As others have said, if your costs are higher then maybe you should charge more? I.e. build that credit card charge into your prices. That way a consumer can see the charges up front, and make better buying decisions between services on offer - as the prices on the screen will be comparable and not jacked up when you get to the checkout process.

I think I'm right here in saying we're not asking you to charge less, we're asking for the charges to be "up front" not sneaked on at the end.

[paddyhasneeds]

mrmr96 said:

Exactly. As others have said, if your costs are higher then maybe you should charge more? I.e. build that credit card charge into your prices.

They won't always be the same though, which is where I have some sympathy - you price based off worst case and you may lose customers, you price based off best case and you may lose money.

[voyds9]

Discount for cash will make a return which will no doubt please HMRC

[mrmr96]

voyds9 said:

Discount for cash will make a return which will no doubt please HMRC

Discounts can be given for any reason so long as the sales price is correctly disclosed.

[mrmr96]

paddyhasneeds said:

mrmr96 said:

Exactly. As others have said, if your costs are higher then maybe you should charge more? I.e. build that credit card charge into your prices.

They won't always be the same though, which is where I have some sympathy - you price based off worst case and you may lose customers, you price based off best case and you may lose money.

There's plenty of businesses which manage to cope with fixed prices but variable costs.

[Pints]

Will this also apply to the DVLA for charging extra when paying for road tax using a CC?

[JontyR]

mrmr96 said:

Oakey said:

JontyR said:

This is just stupid!!

I do believe cc charges are fair and just within reason! (please note within reason)

I get charged 23p per transaction but also a fee to take a payment over the phone. This is something I accept so don't make an additional charge

For cc though I get charged approx 2% depending on the card I take. I also have a surcharge on taking payments where customer not present. This can be extortionate, depending on the type of card. Some of the charge cards in the states can cost up to 5%!!!!

On an item of £1000 I have been charged almost £100 just to take the payment, and I have no way of knowing prior to charging the card.

So you the customer obviously want to use the cc rather than a dc. This is because you want to collect cash back/points or maybe you want the added insurance or even you just don't have the cash at that time....

So why should I pay for that? Or do I add it to the price on a cross the board which would mean everyone would have to pay for you to use your cc. Same with paypal. That can cost 4.5%

Because those are the rates at which you agreed with your card provider in exchange for them giving you the ability to take card payments in the same way your bank no doubt charges you for any cheques, etc you bank?

Exactly. As others have said, if your costs are higher then maybe you should charge more? I.e. build that credit card charge into your prices. That way a consumer can see the charges up front, and make better buying decisions between services on offer - as the prices on the screen will be comparable and not jacked up when you get to the checkout process.

I think I'm right here in saying we're not asking you to charge less, we're asking for the charges to be "up front" not sneaked on at the end.

You are missing the point. My standard terms are very reasonable, so Im not complaining about that. But regardless the rates are calculated on the amount of monies taken, and Im pretty much as low as Im going to get without increasing my turnover tenfold!

I am happy to take payment via debit card, in fact I will always ask for one as preference. I dont see why I should put my prices up to cover credit card costs. How is that fair to someone that pays using debit cards? I guess it would be easier to give a discount for paying by debit card?? But the problem with that is, people judge by the first price they see. so if I put my costs up by 2.5% to cover the admin of running the cc machine, then that is going to put me at a disadvantage to others.

And I go back to, why should I pay for the fact you want to use your credit card?

[paddyhasneeds]

mrmr96 said:

There's plenty of businesses which manage to cope with fixed prices but variable costs.

Of course some do. Personally though, I've no issue with the costs incurred being passed on so long as it's transparent.

I do have an issue with things like "admin charges" that are clearly just money grabs and bear no relation to the admin charge.

This is a while back and may still be the case but in the computer component industry most vendors used to charge 2.5% for credit card payment. It's not a fortune but I could choose to go and pay cash or debit card and not pay it.

If that charge had been 10% because "Well we have to get the machine out and it takes 2 minutes" I'd say that's taking the piss.

[Oakey]

JontyR said:

And I go back to, why should I pay for the fact you want to use your credit card?

Because that is a method of payment you have chosen to accept in order to receive instant payment? You know very well that accepting card services from any of the providers comes at a cost; usually a monthly sub, plus transaction fee or a percentage. As a business owner, you made the conscious decision to install a card machine and accepted the costs associated with it. You can't turn it around and say "Why should I pay because you want to pay by card". You accept cards, don't then blame the customer for wanting to pay with one.

[mrmr96]

JontyR said:

I guess it would be easier to give a discount for paying by debit card?? But the problem with that is, people judge by the first price they see. so if I put my costs up by 2.5% to cover the admin of running the cc machine, then that is going to put me at a disadvantage to others.

And I go back to, why should I pay for the fact you want to use your credit card?

You're right, people DO judge on the first price they see - that's the whole point of this.
You're also right that the costs of processing cards will vary. It's also correct to say that at present different merchants pass on different costs to their customers. But it all happens at the end, which is the problem.

If everyone is forced to incorporate their credit card charges into the price of a product then it makes it easier for the consumer to compare prices. Else they would have to go all the way to the checkout on two websites to compare the prices, which is what's being tackeled by this initiative.

So you'll not be at a disadgantage, because everyone else will have to do the same thing.

(PS - you're not paying for me to use a credit card, any more than you're paying any of the other costs of your business.)

[JontyR]

mrmr96 said:

You're right, people DO judge on the first price they see - that's the whole point of this.
You're also right that the costs of processing cards will vary. It's also correct to say that at present different merchants pass on different costs to their customers. But it all happens at the end, which is the problem.

If everyone is forced to incorporate their credit card charges into the price of a product then it makes it easier for the consumer to compare prices. Else they would have to go all the way to the checkout on two websites to compare the prices, which is what's being tackeled by this initiative.

So you'll not be at a disadgantage, because everyone else will have to do the same thing.

(PS - you're not paying for me to use a credit card, any more than you're paying any of the other costs of your business.)

Yes but I am. If you have the money then pay by debit card. that way I only pay a fee of 23p plus customer not present charges. But that is a big difference to paying 2.5% for you to use your credit card. Most people use their cards because they want to earn points, cash back, or havent got the cash in the first place to pay for it in full. Or they want the insurance. So these are perks that my 2.5% is having to pay for. Explain why I should have to do this?

And yes I signed up for accepting cards. But that doesnt mean that I cant use them under my terms and conditions.

As I first said, I dont disagree with the fact these need to be brought into line, so the companies that charge £10 for using a debit card or any card for a purchase costing £100 isnt fair.

We are so used to handing over a small strip of plastic we forget how much it costs the retailer to use them. As for cash, that isnt much better either The bank charges me to deposit that into my business account. best form of payment is bacs...no charge for that

[Mojooo]

Pints said:

Will this also apply to the DVLA for charging extra when paying for road tax using a CC?

£2 on £100 is probably not excessive.