25 year prison sentence, for breaking into a soup kitchen...
Discussion
As per the title, a bloke was handed a 25 year custodial sentence for breaking into a soup kitchen. Someone else received similar for stealing a slice of pizza from children, someone else another mandatory life sentence when caught (burglary) with his pockets filled with stolen cookies.
This is Americas three strikes law. On the third strike, you receive life. To be clear, California is the only state to impose the three strike rule for non-serious offences.
Like many things American, it seems a tad OTT to me. It's suggested that potential third strikers will run and fight harder, and possibly kill to avoid being caught if facing a third strike.
I'm no criminal, but I do feel it's not entirely 'just' that this three strikes for a life sentence rule permits prosecutors to count strikes with individual charges, not with individual cases.
If applied here, would the law clean up our streets?
Edit: More info here if you are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law
This is Americas three strikes law. On the third strike, you receive life. To be clear, California is the only state to impose the three strike rule for non-serious offences.
Like many things American, it seems a tad OTT to me. It's suggested that potential third strikers will run and fight harder, and possibly kill to avoid being caught if facing a third strike.
I'm no criminal, but I do feel it's not entirely 'just' that this three strikes for a life sentence rule permits prosecutors to count strikes with individual charges, not with individual cases.
If applied here, would the law clean up our streets?
Edit: More info here if you are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law
Wasn't that years ago? IIRC the guy who robbed the pizza slice got his sentence reduced to 4 or 5 years. Which is still a hell of a long time to go down for.
edit - just saw your link, I wasn't far off as it was reduced to 6 years. Way OTT in my opinion. Would work well for seriously violent crimes or crimes involving weapons but not for petty things.
edit - just saw your link, I wasn't far off as it was reduced to 6 years. Way OTT in my opinion. Would work well for seriously violent crimes or crimes involving weapons but not for petty things.
Edited by BrabusMog on Wednesday 4th January 16:52
As talked about on other threads, the US prison system appears to be a hell of a lot tougher than ours and they also have executions, yet crime appears to be far more prevalent and violent in that country**
Although it would appear to be a good idea, it would seem that the 3 strike rule does not act as much of a deterrent or maybe there are a lot of criminal types that do not re-offend.
Obviously we only hear about the people that actually commit the 3rd offence.
Although it would appear to be a good idea, it would seem that the 3 strike rule does not act as much of a deterrent or maybe there are a lot of criminal types that do not re-offend.
Obviously we only hear about the people that actually commit the 3rd offence.
- This information is gleaned from watching US cop and crime shows and ever since Kojak put the fear of god into me about visiting New York, which I finally did last year and found it far less scary than parts of my own London.
fatwomble said:
If you're stupid enough to break the law again, knowing the 3 strike rule, I'm not sure they deserve any sympathy.
Pretty much my feelings. Committing a third criminal act shows you to be habitually inclined to crime, and the odds of repeated mis-convictions to this degree are slender to the point where they can be ignored. Long sentence for the third offence probably means the person was likely to spend most of the rest of their life in prison anyway ('revolving-door justice' anyone?) and you have saved everyone who would otherwise be a victim of theirs, as well as saving a large chunk of police and court costs.
Oli.
Good points raised by all, above.
Good memory re: the pizza slice, Brabus
I'd rather have my hand cut off, Islamic style and without anaesthetic, than loose 25 years for pizza slice theft. What if the judge, 6 years down the line, had not overturned the sentence?
As with virtually every system, there are flaws within the design. Presumably there are no heroin addicts on the street in California, as the junkies need to steal daily to support their habit...
Good memory re: the pizza slice, Brabus
I'd rather have my hand cut off, Islamic style and without anaesthetic, than loose 25 years for pizza slice theft. What if the judge, 6 years down the line, had not overturned the sentence?
As with virtually every system, there are flaws within the design. Presumably there are no heroin addicts on the street in California, as the junkies need to steal daily to support their habit...
The American penal system forms a vital part of the US economy, through the labour that inmates carry out (They 'build' equipment for the other biggest 'employer', the US military, for example).
If you need a workforce that will work for a few cents an hour, and can't look for jobs elsewhere, prison's the best place to find them.
And if you require a big workforce, well…
If you need a workforce that will work for a few cents an hour, and can't look for jobs elsewhere, prison's the best place to find them.
And if you require a big workforce, well…
zcacogp said:
Pretty much my feelings. Committing a third criminal act shows you to be habitually inclined to crime, and the odds of repeated mis-convictions to this degree are slender to the point where they can be ignored.
Long sentence for the third offence probably means the person was likely to spend most of the rest of their life in prison anyway ('revolving-door justice' anyone?) and you have saved everyone who would otherwise be a victim of theirs, as well as saving a large chunk of police and court costs.
Oli.
Long sentence for the third offence probably means the person was likely to spend most of the rest of their life in prison anyway ('revolving-door justice' anyone?) and you have saved everyone who would otherwise be a victim of theirs, as well as saving a large chunk of police and court costs.
Oli.
Anyone stupid enough to commit 3 punishable crimes deserves to spend the rest of their life behind bars.
RacerMDR said:
3 strike rule is a great idea. How desperate were they to be on 2 strikes, and then do the extra crime?
I'm all for it...........
I watched an African chap get kicked to death in the street (in Africa, obviously) for stealing a banana. How desperate to you have to be to risk that!?I'm all for it...........
I was told time and time again that if you did find someone trying to pick your pockets then make like you were going to make a show about it, but let them go.
How desperate does one person have to be to risk their life for a slice of pizza or a banana?
(Granted, a few of them are seriously stupid).
AB said:
RacerMDR said:
3 strike rule is a great idea. How desperate were they to be on 2 strikes, and then do the extra crime?
I'm all for it...........
I watched an African chap get kicked to death in the street (in Africa, obviously) for stealing a banana. How desperate to you have to be to risk that!?I'm all for it...........
I was told time and time again that if you did find someone trying to pick your pockets then make like you were going to make a show about it, but let them go.
How desperate does one person have to be to risk their life for a slice of pizza or a banana?
(Granted, a few of them are seriously stupid).
If they are that desperate - at least they'll get fed in prison for 25 years
AB said:
I watched an African chap get kicked to death in the street (in Africa, obviously) for stealing a banana. How desperate to you have to be to risk that!?
I was told time and time again that if you did find someone trying to pick your pockets then make like you were going to make a show about it, but let them go.
How desperate does one person have to be to risk their life for a slice of pizza or a banana?
(Granted, a few of them are seriously stupid).
I saw beatings in Africa too, and nearly took some for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not a mentality you can change.I was told time and time again that if you did find someone trying to pick your pockets then make like you were going to make a show about it, but let them go.
How desperate does one person have to be to risk their life for a slice of pizza or a banana?
(Granted, a few of them are seriously stupid).
Did the chap you saw taking his beating actually die? Sounds pretty horrific mate.
Medieval England saw plenty of retribution, following petty theft, sometimes which (as you allude) may well have been down to poverty and hunger.
IhateChristmas said:
As talked about on other threads, the US prison system appears to be a hell of a lot tougher than ours and they also have executions, yet crime appears to be far more prevalent and violent in that country**
America has a higher rate of murders but rates of violent crime overall, and property crimes, are lower than in England and Wales I believe.Mobsta said:
I saw beatings in Africa too, and nearly took some for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not a mentality you can change.
Did the chap you saw taking his beating actually die? Sounds pretty horrific mate.
Medieval England saw plenty of retribution, following petty theft, sometimes which (as you allude) may well have been down to poverty and hunger.
I had just popped my bag down in a hostel in Arusha and was looking out of the window, taking it all in. I didn't see the guy steal the banana but I nearly every African in view chase him, drag him down, and kick him to death. He was then dragged into a gutter where he remained for 20 minutes until he was dragged away somewhere else.Did the chap you saw taking his beating actually die? Sounds pretty horrific mate.
Medieval England saw plenty of retribution, following petty theft, sometimes which (as you allude) may well have been down to poverty and hunger.
It was confirmed later that evening that it was a banana and that he died.
I'd rather let someone steal some cash from me than watch them beaten to death but perhaps it's what I've seen which gives me that view?
Mobsta said:
AB said:
I watched an African chap get kicked to death in the street (in Africa, obviously) for stealing a banana. How desperate to you have to be to risk that!?
I was told time and time again that if you did find someone trying to pick your pockets then make like you were going to make a show about it, but let them go.
How desperate does one person have to be to risk their life for a slice of pizza or a banana?
(Granted, a few of them are seriously stupid).
I saw beatings in Africa too, and nearly took some for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not a mentality you can change.I was told time and time again that if you did find someone trying to pick your pockets then make like you were going to make a show about it, but let them go.
How desperate does one person have to be to risk their life for a slice of pizza or a banana?
(Granted, a few of them are seriously stupid).
Did the chap you saw taking his beating actually die? Sounds pretty horrific mate.
Medieval England saw plenty of retribution, following petty theft, sometimes which (as you allude) may well have been down to poverty and hunger.
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