Household fire alarms - time for the law to get heavy?
Discussion
Seems the house that 4 people died in this week - a 19 year old, and his very young siblings - wast fitted without working fire alarms.
I'm absolutely sickened about the number of times this is a factor in these tragic cases, and I think its about time the law was involved.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-16...
It should be law to have working fire alarms in all houses, and furthermore, it should be an indeviduals responsibility to ensure they are fitted and in working order. I would suggest the home owner, or land lord, should be held responsible. And if found lacking in cases like this one, they should be tried for manslaughter.
Its time to get tough with people, these children had their lives before them, and they should have been looked after properly. These children were killed by a relativly minor fire that should have been detected early.
Whats an alarm cost? About a fiver. FFS.
I'm absolutely sickened about the number of times this is a factor in these tragic cases, and I think its about time the law was involved.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-16...
It should be law to have working fire alarms in all houses, and furthermore, it should be an indeviduals responsibility to ensure they are fitted and in working order. I would suggest the home owner, or land lord, should be held responsible. And if found lacking in cases like this one, they should be tried for manslaughter.
Its time to get tough with people, these children had their lives before them, and they should have been looked after properly. These children were killed by a relativly minor fire that should have been detected early.
Whats an alarm cost? About a fiver. FFS.
I see your point but this would be the thin end of the wedge for official snoopers in the home, to be followed by checks on smoking, drinking, obesity and so on.
While these sad events get plenty of publicity how often do they actually happen given the number of 'habitable dwellings' in the UK?
While these sad events get plenty of publicity how often do they actually happen given the number of 'habitable dwellings' in the UK?
Original thread: http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f... - but this thread should be kept alive for the discussion, I feel.
Puggit said:
Original thread: http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f... - but this thread should be kept alive for the discussion, I feel.
Agreed the subject is the same family, but I think the discussion on the law aspect is what i really want to get going.Dogwatch said:
I see your point but this would be the thin end of the wedge for official snoopers in the home, to be followed by checks on smoking, drinking, obesity and so on.
While these sad events get plenty of publicity how often do they actually happen given the number of 'habitable dwellings' in the UK?
Many of these fires happen in rented or council accomodation - are these covered by the law.While these sad events get plenty of publicity how often do they actually happen given the number of 'habitable dwellings' in the UK?
Also, you dont need a snooping inspetor to throw the book at the registered owner of a home after a fire. If you made it the law, and publicised the law, most people would act on it, realising the importance.
These fire happen way too often, and many in homes where the children seem to have needed a bit more government 'help' during their lives, many of people that have money for beer and fags but not enough for a replacement battery. Perhaps fire alarm batteries should be free?
Heres an idea for a budding inventor - those new long life eco light bulbs - fit in a micro fire alarm into them.
So far as I can remember there is a Building Regulations requirement that all new build properties have to have these fitted.
I agree that people should be compelled to have these fitted to a greater extent than they already are but i do have an issue with making them a legal requirement for Landlords to ensure that they are in good working order. You would never be surprised at the number of tenants who remove these so that they can smoke in properties they are not supposed to and/or smoke detectors can get a little antsey when there is a proper old open fire in the property – we’ve set ours off twice in the last month.
I agree that people should be compelled to have these fitted to a greater extent than they already are but i do have an issue with making them a legal requirement for Landlords to ensure that they are in good working order. You would never be surprised at the number of tenants who remove these so that they can smoke in properties they are not supposed to and/or smoke detectors can get a little antsey when there is a proper old open fire in the property – we’ve set ours off twice in the last month.
Ian_S said:
There's no excuse considering the fire brigade will come and fit 10 year alarms for free, they also offer to change the batterys after 10 years.
never heard of this.Edited by Ian_S on Tuesday 10th January 17:43
our three bed house has 6 alarms, 2 of which are hard wired. But then again, it is thatched!
What would the point be in locking up the mother in the recent case? I am sure she feels guilty enough as it is. Creating new laws to punish people after tragic accidents isn't the way forward, better to spend the money on a campaign to get people to test their alarms rather than lining lawyers' pockets.
greygoose said:
What would the point be in locking up the mother in the recent case? I am sure she feels guilty enough as it is. Creating new laws to punish people after tragic accidents isn't the way forward, better to spend the money on a campaign to get people to test their alarms rather than lining lawyers' pockets.
Perhaps if there was a threat of action in the law those children would still be alive? Most people dont break laws because there is a law, not because of the imposition of a penalty if caught breaking a law.Edited by Corsair7 on Tuesday 10th January 17:54
Bluebarge said:
About twice as many people die every year from falling down stairs. Are compulsory bungalows your answer?
I thought the "let's legislate for everything" reflex had died with the last labour govt. Obviously 13 years of brainwashing had their effect.
Not a relevant arguement, and quite childish. Falling down stairs is an accident. Dying in your bed as a helpless two year old from smoke inhalation whilst the householder is partying away elsewhere and hasnt fitted batteries to fire alarms is not an accident.I thought the "let's legislate for everything" reflex had died with the last labour govt. Obviously 13 years of brainwashing had their effect.
greygoose said:
What would the point be in locking up the mother in the recent case? I am sure she feels guilty enough as it is. Creating new laws to punish people after tragic accidents isn't the way forward, better to spend the money on a campaign to get people to test their alarms rather than lining lawyers' pockets.
Somewhat irrelevant, if it turns out this fire started because they wired their 'wardrobe' up to the mains are you saying she shouldn't be held accountable?Corsair7 said:
Heres an idea for a budding inventor - those new long life eco light bulbs - fit in a micro fire alarm into them.
That sounds like a good idea actually, it would save having to get an alarm wired in if you could just plug it in to the light bulb socket and now we use more low-power bulbs the circuit might be able to handle both without modification 
There are laws regarding fire alarms and rented properties, we used to rent a house and it had two wired in alarms with battery backup, plus a fire blanket and DP extinguisher.
One day we had a call from the tennant saying the alarm was "going off", after we ascertained that the house wasn't on fire we advised them to replace the battery.
They called back the next night saying it was beeping again, we went round to find they'd removed the alarm altogether, we replaced their pound-shop batteries with Duracells, refitted the alarms and all was well.
Rather like the woman killed by a train trying to retrieve her phone, there are some things that you just can't legislate against.
Having said that I've got a duff smoke alarm in my bedside cabinet that needs replacing, however I'm confident the other three in the house will be sufficient until my FB pal brings me a new one.
One day we had a call from the tennant saying the alarm was "going off", after we ascertained that the house wasn't on fire we advised them to replace the battery.
They called back the next night saying it was beeping again, we went round to find they'd removed the alarm altogether, we replaced their pound-shop batteries with Duracells, refitted the alarms and all was well.
Rather like the woman killed by a train trying to retrieve her phone, there are some things that you just can't legislate against.
Having said that I've got a duff smoke alarm in my bedside cabinet that needs replacing, however I'm confident the other three in the house will be sufficient until my FB pal brings me a new one.
Oakey said:
greygoose said:
What would the point be in locking up the mother in the recent case? I am sure she feels guilty enough as it is. Creating new laws to punish people after tragic accidents isn't the way forward, better to spend the money on a campaign to get people to test their alarms rather than lining lawyers' pockets.
Somewhat irrelevant, if it turns out this fire started because they wired their 'wardrobe' up to the mains are you saying she shouldn't be held accountable?greygoose said:
I've no idea how the fire started, I was giving my view on the smoke alarm issue that the thread is about. If she wired up furniture to burn down the house then she should of course be punished but I haven't seen any evidence in the BBC link to suggest that.
It started in one of the attic rooms in a wardrobe that appeared to be wired up to the mains. Apparently the wardrobe suffered 50% fire damage and the attic 100% smoke damage. The police are appealing for information about this. Now, that could be some dodgy downlighters, or it could be something else.
According to the news they had fire alarms but recently removed the batteries because they had started beeping!
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