Did McCarthyism work?
Discussion
It's got a bit of a bad name but the hounding of communists and communist sympathisers in the 1940s and 50s did mark something of a divergence between the US and western European countries, with the US retaining a greater focus on economic and (ironically) personal freedom in certain ways, and Europe choosing a more statist path.
Obviously there are other factors at play, but do you think McCarthy's purges were a significant contributor to this, or what else was?
Also, would Britain now be a better place if we'd had our own version and done more to hound trade unionists and other lefties during the same period and nip their advance in the bud?
Obviously there are other factors at play, but do you think McCarthy's purges were a significant contributor to this, or what else was?
Also, would Britain now be a better place if we'd had our own version and done more to hound trade unionists and other lefties during the same period and nip their advance in the bud?
AJS- said:
It's got a bit of a bad name but the hounding of communists and communist sympathisers in the 1940s and 50s did mark something of a divergence between the US and western European countries, with the US retaining a greater focus on economic and (ironically) personal freedom in certain ways, and Europe choosing a more statist path.
Obviously there are other factors at play, but do you think McCarthy's purges were a significant contributor to this, or what else was?
Also, would Britain now be a better place if we'd had our own version and done more to hound trade unionists and other lefties during the same period and nip their advance in the bud?
You may not fully appreciate some of the dreadful impacts of McCarthyism, and it was in NO way related to focusing more on personal freedom : it was the opposite - focusing on demonising many actors and liberals.Obviously there are other factors at play, but do you think McCarthy's purges were a significant contributor to this, or what else was?
Also, would Britain now be a better place if we'd had our own version and done more to hound trade unionists and other lefties during the same period and nip their advance in the bud?
It was in essence a bigoted , fascist approach to stifling freedom of speech with impunity and no come-back - all done under the misleading cloak of Nationalism and support for the good 'ole USA [rather like the Nazi movement in Germany ... ]
You should read the novel "the Crucible" by Arthur Miller which was inspired by McCarthyism - this was required reading in High School English classes where I grew up in the States .... the McCarthy era and actions are seen as rather shameful piece of history by most Americans [in my experience ]
It was a truly dark period in American history. One of the benefits was that Americans who found they had been blacklisted came to Europe to make a living. People like LarRy Adler, Paul Robeson and Sam Wannamaker became America's loss and Europe's gain.
Even greats like Charlie Chaplin left America permanently as a result.
Even greats like Charlie Chaplin left America permanently as a result.
Eric Mc said:
It was a truly dark period in American history. One of the benefits was that Americans who found they had been blacklisted came to Europe to make a living. People like LarRy Adler, Paul Robeson and Sam Wannamaker became America's loss and Europe's gain.
Even greats like Charlie Chaplin left America permanently as a result.
^This. The novel "The Crucible", which details a medieval witch hunt was written by Miller to parody McCarthyism. Bleak indeed.Even greats like Charlie Chaplin left America permanently as a result.
I think it was a misguided attempt to head off the greater eveil as, in contemporary times, is the who Guantanamo Bay thing.
It does however, raise broader questions which have yet to be addressed. How far does democracy go to protect the interests of the many. How much value can we place on freedom and the rights of the few which may be preceived to be at the very fringes of what it considered beneficial or detrimental to the many. How do we fight guerillas, terrorists and fundamentalists and remain 'civilised' - because fight we surely have to or otherwise simply capitulate.
alfaman said:
You may not fully appreciate some of the dreadful impacts of McCarthyism, and it was in NO way related to focusing more on personal freedom : it was the opposite - focusing on demonising many actors and liberals.
It was in essence a bigoted , fascist approach to stifling freedom of speech with impunity and no come-back - all done under the misleading cloak of Nationalism and support for the good 'ole USA [rather like the Nazi movement in Germany ... ]
You should read the novel "the Crucible" by Arthur Miller which was inspired by McCarthyism - this was required reading in High School English classes where I grew up in the States .... the McCarthy era and actions are seen as rather shameful piece of history by most Americans [in my experience ]
An excellent book but one whose impact stays with you for some time. Not an easy book to forget nor one that you want to read again. It is a horror story but one which is more frightening as it is based on fact. It could, one feels, happen here. It has already happened in othe countries.It was in essence a bigoted , fascist approach to stifling freedom of speech with impunity and no come-back - all done under the misleading cloak of Nationalism and support for the good 'ole USA [rather like the Nazi movement in Germany ... ]
You should read the novel "the Crucible" by Arthur Miller which was inspired by McCarthyism - this was required reading in High School English classes where I grew up in the States .... the McCarthy era and actions are seen as rather shameful piece of history by most Americans [in my experience ]
Nice to see that it was required reading in the USA.
Also worth watching is a 1970s TV film starring Peter Boyle called "Tail Gunner Joe" (McCarthy's nickname) and the George Clooney film "Good Night and Good Luck".
One of the great heroes of the McCarthy era was the journalist Edward R Murrow who exposed McCarthy for the sham and bully that he was. And before anyone thinks Murrow was some sort of "Commie Sympathiser", in 1940 Murrow was based in London and it was his radio broadcasts back to America that helped sway American public opinion that Britain needed to be helped.
One of the great heroes of the McCarthy era was the journalist Edward R Murrow who exposed McCarthy for the sham and bully that he was. And before anyone thinks Murrow was some sort of "Commie Sympathiser", in 1940 Murrow was based in London and it was his radio broadcasts back to America that helped sway American public opinion that Britain needed to be helped.
It was stopped to a great extent by the courts in America. A sign I think that we should be concerned when MPs take a hightened interest in the decisions of courts. Whilst the ECHR might make decisions which give us problems, the idea of having them controlled closely by governments is not a sensible option.
Derek Smith said:
It was stopped to a great extent by the courts in America. A sign I think that we should be concerned when MPs take a hightened interest in the decisions of courts. Whilst the ECHR might make decisions which give us problems, the idea of having them controlled closely by governments is not a sensible option.
So having decisions made be elected (who can be voted out next time around) polictians is a bad idea and having decisions made by unelected (and apparently unaccountable) ECHR judges is?Not sure I agree with you on that one.
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