Does anyone understand the NHS reforms?

[Johnnytheboy]

The BBC have been getting in a lather about the NHS reforms again today. If the woman who was heckling Andrew Lansley was as ugly as her voice suggested, I'm glad I only listen to the radio.

Now, I'm a simple gardener, so I can't quite fathom what's so controversial about the proposed reforms, because the actual content gets swept aside by the usual shouty punch & judy politics whenever it's discussed.

As far as I can tell the main effect would be to removed centralised decision-making bodies like strategic health authorities and PCTs and put their service buying powers in the hands of teams of doctors. So far, so uncontroversial (as far as I'm concerned).

But then the magic word "competition" gets mentioned and all the NHS employees' organisations start shouting.

Is that what's behind this? The public sector army and their unions' fundamental fear of market forces?

Can anyone explain to me as a very light user of the NHS why the NHS reform bill is anything to fear?

[Mojooo]

From what I have seen a lot of GPs don't want the control because

1 - they are Drs not accountants ro business people

2 - having the direct power of money may affect treatment decisions


I know a Dr who has those concerns.

[0a]

Your question is a very valid one, and a similar thread was posted here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

One thing that has not been helpful is the constant bleating that "it's privatisation", that "we have 3 months to save the NHS" and "you'd better have your credit card ready" from the Lefties.

But the government have not explained it, and reading the bill I'm not entirely sure of the purpose of it.

There are some excellent posts on that thread for both sides (not mine I hasten to add!)

[12gauge]

I thought all the quacks wanted this before the election, now theyve changed their mind.

Whatever, if the BBC doesn't like it, it must be good.

[0a]

12gauge said:

I thought all the quacks wanted this before the election, now theyve changed their mind.

Whatever, if the BBC doesn't like it, it must be good.

Unions representing almost all health professionals are against it.

Nothing to do with the pensions strikes a few months back then?

[Johnnytheboy]

0a said:

Your question is a very valid one, and a similar thread was posted here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

One thing that has not been helpful is the constant bleating that "it's privatisation", that "we have 3 months to save the NHS" and "you'd better have your credit card ready" from the Lefties.

But the government have not explained it, and reading the bill I'm not entirely sure of the purpose of it.

There are some excellent posts on that thread for both sides (not mine I hasten to add!)

Sorry, I looked and missed that thread.

I get the impression that a fairly elegant bill has been watered down/overcomplicated in order to placate vested interests that were never going to be placated.

But I started this thread in order to be shown otherwise.

[Puggit]

The Mail had an article recently about how it was all of Lansley's mates in a consultancy who were due to win from this by writing the proposal and selling services to the NHS. If the Mail is slagging it off, there's got to be concern.

[Mojooo]

One way or the other know the NHS is going to get raped by signing upto ocntracts that only benefit private companies. Even worse if they are forced to by law.

[thinfourth2]

Anything other then a doubling of the NHS budget will be painted as the end of the NHS by some media friendly tt

[Guybrush]

It's a good question; the media seems unable to explain the detail of the reforms. We do see, however, a lot of the usual lefty rent-a-crowd shouting their standard objections and probably also those of pointless pen pushers who fear for their jobs.

[Guybrush]

Puggit said:

The Mail had an article recently about how it was all of Lansley's mates in a consultancy who were due to win from this by writing the proposal and selling services to the NHS. If the Mail is slagging it off, there's got to be concern.

Possibly, but how do we break away from the utterly disastrous PFI deals done under Labour's years of mismanagement, where we the taxpayer have been shafted for years to come?

[JMGS4]

Guybrush said:

It's a good question; the media seems unable to explain the detail of the reforms. We do see, however, a lot of the usual lefty rent-a-crowd shouting their standard objections and probably also those of pointless pen pushers who fear for their jobs.

Anything to get rid of useless penpushers and trouser polishers in the NHS is good. The fact that these jobs were created by Labour for nothing else than buying votes is also a main reason why they should all be removed, as well as their sheer inefficiency and incompetence. We do NOT need statisticians in every hospital checking whether nurses or doctors have filled in stupid lists, we need more qualified and better paid doctors and nurses (about 30% more!)

[Puggit]

Here's the Mail on Sunday article - obviously needs a pinch of salt, but quite shocking nevertheless...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099940/NH...

[0000]

Mojooo said:

From what I have seen a lot of GPs don't want the control because...

This is the most (only?) valid point I've heard against the reforms.

It does seem to confirm they're the best people for the job though!

[Johnnytheboy]

Far be it from me to steer the topic but I genuinely interested in finding out why people don't like the reforms, not who doesn't like the reforms.

So far all I've got is that some GPs don't fancy fundholding.

It just seems like the vehemence of objection over some budget handling changes seems disproportionate.

[hairykrishna]

Johnnytheboy said:

Far be it from me to steer the topic but I genuinely interested in finding out why people don't like the reforms, not who doesn't like the reforms.

So far all I've got is that some GPs don't fancy fundholding.

It just seems like the vehemence of objection over some budget handling changes seems disproportionate.

Many people I know in the NHS at various levels think it's a terrible idea. It's pushing lots of duties on to GP's which they don't want, don't have time for and will probably be st at. It's going to provide a worse service for more money is the general opinion as far as I can tell.

[Johnnytheboy]

hairykrishna said:

Many people I know in the NHS at various levels think it's a terrible idea. It's pushing lots of duties on to GP's which they don't want, don't have time for and will probably be st at. It's going to provide a worse service for more money is the general opinion as far as I can tell.

What's the alternative? Is the status quo the ideal? Is the proposed model less bureaucratic?

I'm not being sarcastic - I really want to understand this.

[hairykrishna]

Johnnytheboy said:

What's the alternative? Is the status quo the ideal? Is the proposed model less bureaucratic?

I'm not being sarcastic - I really want to understand this.

I genuinely have no idea. The status quo is very inefficient but a lot of people who I trust in their knowledge of such things tell me the new system will be worse. I suspect nobody has any real idea what the 'best' system will be.

[Hooli]

JMGS4 said:

Guybrush said:

It's a good question; the media seems unable to explain the detail of the reforms. We do see, however, a lot of the usual lefty rent-a-crowd shouting their standard objections and probably also those of pointless pen pushers who fear for their jobs.

Anything to get rid of useless penpushers and trouser polishers in the NHS is good. The fact that these jobs were created by Labour for nothing else than buying votes is also a main reason why they should all be removed, as well as their sheer inefficiency and incompetence. We do NOT need statisticians in every hospital checking whether nurses or doctors have filled in stupid lists, we need more qualified and better paid doctors and nurses (about 30% more!)

I work in NHS IT & I could point out offices full of highly paid prats who do nothing all day except talk about holidays & search for their next one online.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

The mad heckler woman in on the JV show, BBC radio 2 now.