What does the EU do for us?
Discussion
Was thinking about this earlier, and I didnt get very far. So what do we gain from being in the EU?
We get free trade agreements, but in the 21st century when so much trade is global/outside the EU is it really such a big deal? Most countries comply with EU legislation anyway as its such a big market, and as we're so close and such a big economy then surely we could get something similar without actually being in the EU and paying so much?
We get the EU Court of Human Rights - not sure I like this one. Undeniably it has helped lots of citizens, but at the same time it stipulates what we can and cannot do with convicted criminals in our own country, deporting radicals etc. Can we not take the ideas from it and write our own statute which would be implemented by our own court system?
We get CAP (common agricultural policy) which subsidises food in the supermarkets, but agricultural subsidies were around before the EU was, and currently some of the money we pay into Europe goes to developing countries who buy big kit and can produce food cheaper than we can. Great success.
Finding a figure of how much the EU costs seems to be quite hard as well; figures vary from £220 a year per person up to £2000 per person depending on who you believe.
Just thinking out loud...
We get free trade agreements, but in the 21st century when so much trade is global/outside the EU is it really such a big deal? Most countries comply with EU legislation anyway as its such a big market, and as we're so close and such a big economy then surely we could get something similar without actually being in the EU and paying so much?
We get the EU Court of Human Rights - not sure I like this one. Undeniably it has helped lots of citizens, but at the same time it stipulates what we can and cannot do with convicted criminals in our own country, deporting radicals etc. Can we not take the ideas from it and write our own statute which would be implemented by our own court system?
We get CAP (common agricultural policy) which subsidises food in the supermarkets, but agricultural subsidies were around before the EU was, and currently some of the money we pay into Europe goes to developing countries who buy big kit and can produce food cheaper than we can. Great success.
Finding a figure of how much the EU costs seems to be quite hard as well; figures vary from £220 a year per person up to £2000 per person depending on who you believe.
Just thinking out loud...
-Pete- said:
Are you serious? Do you have any idea how twisted your sausages would be, or how unmetric a pound of bananas would be without them. Worth every thoundand(s) I'm paying each year IMO.
Whilst you might jest - there is something to be said for consistent laws on consumer laws, food standards and labelling, weights and measures, texttile production and so on. It certainly DOES make it to trade between countries as well as being of use to the end person (i.e public).Mojooo said:
Whilst you might jest - there is something to be said for consistent laws on consumer laws, food standards and labelling, weights and measures, texttile production and so on. It certainly DOES make it to trade between countries as well as being of use to the end person (i.e public).
It's hard to sift the wheat from the chaff in that respect though. Bits of the EU are breathtaking in the audacity of their crapness, and they overshadow the bits (like consumer protection) that are actually quite good.Condi said:
Benefits? How do we benefit from membership.
Well it helps us find jobs for our failed or useless politicians,we dont need to worry about making red tape its all done for us!
we dont need to worry what to do with spare money the Eu takes it
and gets rid of it in safe controled way,
it helps us to be fair to foreign terorists
it gives us an enless supply of crimnals/and cheap labour, benifit and health tourists.
we get to sell a few bits and bobs they send us bmws audis VWs fiats, renaults etc lorrys and other high value stuff..
all good and long may it continue
Freedom of movement throughout member states
Free trade with no barriers
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Improved Environmental protection
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
Free trade with no barriers
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Improved Environmental protection
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
craigjm said:
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
Given the state of their accounts I'd say it doesn't know what they spend the money on either..Unless you count bankrupt countries of course..
craigjm said:
Freedom of movement throughout member states
Free trade with no barriers
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Improved Environmental protection
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
This is true. The UK media is remarkably biased against the EU, for reasons I don't fully understand. Free trade with no barriers
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Improved Environmental protection
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
Incidentally, the European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU - every European state is a member with the exception of Belarus. It's helpful to the news organisations for people to think the European Court is part of the EU though because people don't like the EHCR much...
A lot of the legislation I work with stems from the EU and generally it is pretty good.
I actually think the EU has the balls to do some good stuff that the UK Govt alone probably wouldn't. My main criticism is that its a slow moving beast.
I know we all love the metric v imperial argument when talking about the EU. As it goes the UK Government atcually wanted full metrication I believe, they were just too weak to bring it in and force everyone to change at once which is why we now have a dual system for some things in the UK (aclohol pints and road signs).
I actually think the EU has the balls to do some good stuff that the UK Govt alone probably wouldn't. My main criticism is that its a slow moving beast.
I know we all love the metric v imperial argument when talking about the EU. As it goes the UK Government atcually wanted full metrication I believe, they were just too weak to bring it in and force everyone to change at once which is why we now have a dual system for some things in the UK (aclohol pints and road signs).
Well the EU creates a lot of laws.
None of them are helpful and none of them are any good.
Despite decades of meddling the EU has done nothing for employee rights, the environment or pretty much anything else.
I has decimated our fishing and farming though.
And impoverished our taxpayers with the continued, unchecked and unaccountable spending, and the Euro project.
So no, not a single good thing, but lots of bad things.
ETA:
Of course there is free movement. With an up to date passport. Not really an EU thing though IMO.
Then there is free trade. Try turning up at Dover with a van full of booze - then you'll see how free it is.
None of them are helpful and none of them are any good.
Despite decades of meddling the EU has done nothing for employee rights, the environment or pretty much anything else.
I has decimated our fishing and farming though.
And impoverished our taxpayers with the continued, unchecked and unaccountable spending, and the Euro project.
So no, not a single good thing, but lots of bad things.
ETA:
Of course there is free movement. With an up to date passport. Not really an EU thing though IMO.
Then there is free trade. Try turning up at Dover with a van full of booze - then you'll see how free it is.
Edited by Globs on Sunday 25th March 23:27
craigjm said:
Freedom of movement throughout member states As long as you have your passport with you, so hardly free movement
Free trade with no barriers
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK thats just our money coming back to us
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe) exactly ... and they aren't all to the benefit of the country, working time directive is one that doesn't suit everybody
Improved Environmental protection
Greater cooperation in law enforcement free extradition to Greece whenever they feel like, with no right to refuse
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
Free trade with no barriers
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK thats just our money coming back to us
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe) exactly ... and they aren't all to the benefit of the country, working time directive is one that doesn't suit everybody
Improved Environmental protection
Greater cooperation in law enforcement free extradition to Greece whenever they feel like, with no right to refuse
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Im sure there are more but thats all I can think of for now. The problem with anti-EU thought is that the majority of people don't really know what it does or what it spends money on and suck up what the media decide to concentrate on.
I'm not trying to start an argument as I'm with the OP on this; I have no idea about the EU, but this is my take on it (and I'm entirely prepared to be told I'm wrong).
craigjm said:
Freedom of movement throughout member states
How is this different from any other country in real life? If I fly out to see my folks in Spain I still have to show my passport on arriving there and returning here, along with baggage/customs checks. Visiting non-EU countries seems the same as visiting Spain to me. Yet we seem to get undesirables just walking in.craigjm said:
Free trade with no barriers
No idea about this.craigjm said:
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
The firm I work for is Canadian, yet they are here in part due to the benefits that the UK government give them.craigjm said:
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Within the EU our voice seems to be ignored regularly. Outside of the EU I don't know.craigjm said:
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Why couldn't we do this ourselves by, for example, not throwing aid at countries such as India?craigjm said:
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Very true, however how binding is this? When I started working for my last two firms I signed a piece of paper to say that I was aware of the European Working Hours Directive (or somesuch) but that I was opting out of it.craigjm said:
Improved Environmental protection
Improved or out of control?craigjm said:
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
To our detriment it seems to me. This seems to be very one-sided.craigjm said:
Reduction in the possibility of European war
With whom?
Condi said:
We get the EU Court of Human Rights - not sure I like this one. Undeniably it has helped lots of citizens, but at the same time it stipulates what we can and cannot do with convicted criminals in our own country, deporting radicals etc. Can we not take the ideas from it and write our own statute which would be implemented by our own court system?
A common mistake by many. The ECHR is not part of the EU.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Hum...
Dixie68 said:
craigjm said:
Free trade with no barriers
No idea about this.If will be confiscated (stolen) by customs.
The free trade is a myth.
Dixie68 said:
craigjm said:
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Very true, however how binding is this? When I started working for my last two firms I signed a piece of paper to say that I was aware of the European Working Hours Directive (or somesuch) but that I was opting out of it.The EU and all the billions paid of in tax to them isn't worth a damn for employment protection.
The EU is perfectly happy for the UK worker to be treated like s
t.And in Portugal too - where I know people being abused by factories etc.
The EU is not there to help the little people, it's not run for our benefit at all.
craigjm said:
Freedom of movement throughout member states
Free trade with no barriers
We did pretty well without them. Heck, even 50 US States can work the trade thing out
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
They were hardy likely to invest in Europe considering the cost of labour and employment laws they have, and some of the investment predates the EU itself (think EEC and EC).
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Yes, because the 4th/5th/6th/7th biggest economy (or whatever we are now) was really struggling to be heard.
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Regeneration with our own money! Even better, we get to regenerate countries that compete against us.
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Do me a favour, we had to write most of the HRA (let alone employment law) to start the rest of Europe murdering itself on a regular basis
Improved Environmental protection
Again, the UK had a great environmental record before the EU existed
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
How did we cope before????
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Don't be daft. We didn't require a political treaty to buy BMW cars
Free trade with no barriers
We did pretty well without them. Heck, even 50 US States can work the trade thing out
Inward investment to sell to Europe (would Toyota, Honda and Nissan be in the UK otherwise?)
They were hardy likely to invest in Europe considering the cost of labour and employment laws they have, and some of the investment predates the EU itself (think EEC and EC).
A voice on the world stage (the UK on its own is getting quieter by the year)
Yes, because the 4th/5th/6th/7th biggest economy (or whatever we are now) was really struggling to be heard.
Regeneration money to regenerate some of the poorest areas of the UK
Regeneration with our own money! Even better, we get to regenerate countries that compete against us.
Greater protection for workers (a lot of employment law comes from Europe)
Do me a favour, we had to write most of the HRA (let alone employment law) to start the rest of Europe murdering itself on a regular basis
Improved Environmental protection
Again, the UK had a great environmental record before the EU existed
Greater cooperation in law enforcement
How did we cope before????
Reduction in the possibility of European war
Don't be daft. We didn't require a political treaty to buy BMW cars
It is definitley fair to say that the UK is a 'front runner' as far as the EU goes. I imagine a lot of other countries benefit more from higher standard of law and standards the EU brings. The UK probably already had a high standard of law in most areas.
Its a bit like the HRA, there was a documentary on the other day that points out the UK was influential in drafing the origina ECHR. It may also be oen of the reasons why we see mto follow it so closely whereas other subscribers don't - we are 'world leaders' setting an exmaple.
I also know for exmaple that Consumer Credit legislation was highly advanced in the UK before being borrowed from by the EU.
If the UK started making all of its own laws again the number of MPs we would need would go through the roof - the UK can barely get through its most basic legislation i ntime, let alone the extremley complex and technical stuff the EU brings in - so maybe its not all such a bad thing!
Its a bit like the HRA, there was a documentary on the other day that points out the UK was influential in drafing the origina ECHR. It may also be oen of the reasons why we see mto follow it so closely whereas other subscribers don't - we are 'world leaders' setting an exmaple.
I also know for exmaple that Consumer Credit legislation was highly advanced in the UK before being borrowed from by the EU.
If the UK started making all of its own laws again the number of MPs we would need would go through the roof - the UK can barely get through its most basic legislation i ntime, let alone the extremley complex and technical stuff the EU brings in - so maybe its not all such a bad thing!
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff