A wind change in Ireland
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17973830
A number of priests have openly expressed their desire for change in Church rules on matters such as clerical celibacy, the ordination of women and the ban on contraception, including Father Tony Flannery and the broadcaster and newspaper columnist Fr Brian D'Arcy. The pope was equal to the challenge and in order to gain the hearts and minds of his workers he ordered Flannery to stop writing articles for a Redemptorist Order magazine to which he had contributed for 14 years. D’Arcy was told he must get prior approval to write or broadcast on topics dealing with church doctrine.
The pope said the Church would not tolerate priests saying things they believed.
A recent survey of Irish Catholics found that 90% would support the introduction of married priests, 77% want women to be ordained and 60% disagreed with Church teaching that gay relationships were immoral.
It shows that even Ireland, one of the jewels in the pope’s crown, disagrees with fundamentals of the religion.
Quite a surprise for me.
With their financial troubles and now a substantial rejection of the shackles of Rome, is there a chance of a refreshed and revitalised Italy?
A number of priests have openly expressed their desire for change in Church rules on matters such as clerical celibacy, the ordination of women and the ban on contraception, including Father Tony Flannery and the broadcaster and newspaper columnist Fr Brian D'Arcy. The pope was equal to the challenge and in order to gain the hearts and minds of his workers he ordered Flannery to stop writing articles for a Redemptorist Order magazine to which he had contributed for 14 years. D’Arcy was told he must get prior approval to write or broadcast on topics dealing with church doctrine.
The pope said the Church would not tolerate priests saying things they believed.
A recent survey of Irish Catholics found that 90% would support the introduction of married priests, 77% want women to be ordained and 60% disagreed with Church teaching that gay relationships were immoral.
It shows that even Ireland, one of the jewels in the pope’s crown, disagrees with fundamentals of the religion.
Quite a surprise for me.
With their financial troubles and now a substantial rejection of the shackles of Rome, is there a chance of a refreshed and revitalised Italy?
This once most 'loyal' of Catholic nations has of late rather lost it's love affair with the Church of Rome. Some would say that that is a good thing. Some would say that the way the church has behaved over the last three decades (at least) has been sickening. I would tend to agree.
The once vice life grip of the Bishops and their lackies has slipped of late. I wonder if all this talk of 'reform' is just too late to save it from being relegated to the sidelines once and for all.
The once vice life grip of the Bishops and their lackies has slipped of late. I wonder if all this talk of 'reform' is just too late to save it from being relegated to the sidelines once and for all.
One of the good things about the RC church is that is has, for the most part, a very clear list of rules. If you want to be in it, play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, leave and start your own church.
Insisting that its employees toe the company line seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for any large organisation.
Insisting that its employees toe the company line seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for any large organisation.
singlecoil said:
Insisting that its employees toe the company line seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for any large organisation.
Not when that means pressurising employees into not reporting child rape and abuse, and insisting that the reputation of the church comes before the law.Rotten to the core. I hope it all comes crashing down.
singlecoil said:
One of the good things about the RC church is that is has, for the most part, a very clear list of rules. If you want to be in it, play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, leave and start your own church.
I must have missed the Roman Catholic Church of Underage Boy Butt f
kers, but then I went to a CofE...TwigtheWonderkid said:
singlecoil said:
Insisting that its employees toe the company line seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for any large organisation.
Not when that means pressurising employees into not reporting child rape and abuse, and insisting that the reputation of the church comes before the law.Rotten to the core. I hope it all comes crashing down.
singlecoil said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
singlecoil said:
Insisting that its employees toe the company line seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for any large organisation.
Not when that means pressurising employees into not reporting child rape and abuse, and insisting that the reputation of the church comes before the law.Rotten to the core. I hope it all comes crashing down.
Raping priests: Magdalene launderies and b
h nuns and unmarked graves. Hide the evidence, bully those who were raped, silence them into mute oblivion and then blame them for corrupting the priests.
It's all there... All fetid, corrupt and rotten to the core.
Maybe outside the rule book, but quite frankly as a rule book... The de facto book of hide, lie, bury, deny and silence.
drivin_me_nuts said:
Maybe outside the rule book, but quite frankly as a rule book... The de facto book of hide, lie, bury, deny and silence.
I didn't really expect when I got up this morning that I would be defending the Roman Catholic church, but the problem that I have, if I don't, is that then those people who are unable to distinguish between an organisation itself, and a good number of people within that organisation, will then be able to propagate their own version of 'the truth' unchallenged.As it is, I've known a good many people within the RC church, and they were all pretty good people.
My paternal grandmother was taken, with her twin brother, when around 6 years old from there single mother because of 'moral concerns'. She was placed in a workhouse run by nuns in Co. Cork. The lad died within a few days.
I've always realised that this has put me against the catholic religion, and to an extent religion in general, and I've tried to compensate. However, the older I get the more and the more revelations I hear, the more I feel that my reactions are correct.
An uncle tried to find out what had happened to the lad, his uncle of course, but the church blocked all enquiries. They'd washed their hands of it. OK, so it was then around 70 years previously, but my gran was still alive. The hail mary part of my family treated my gran as a pariah as she'd left the church, taking her 18 children with her, and become a methodist, the nearest thing to not having a religion in those days.
So I know I'm resentful. I know my emotions are perverted by the perversions of the nuns when they beat, starved and killed those in their charge. The nuns were not the church but the church defended them.
That was bad enough but I get drawn to the revellations of child abuse etc of the church. What really gets me is the way the curch covered it up. There are bound to be bad apples. What is really offensive to me is the way the religious hierarchy - as well as the police and politicans - covered up their actions and left them to offend again and ruin the lives of even more children.
My gran is beyond aplogies now, long dead, and the nuns are beyond punishment, unless there is a god when they will be in a hell of their own making, so it is over. Had it been history then I'd accept it. But it is going on now, in other countries at least. And those at the top of the church think first of what's best for them. How corrupt is that?
There are rules, made by the bosses. They are there not for the welfare of people but the prolonging of the chruch institutions.
I've always realised that this has put me against the catholic religion, and to an extent religion in general, and I've tried to compensate. However, the older I get the more and the more revelations I hear, the more I feel that my reactions are correct.
An uncle tried to find out what had happened to the lad, his uncle of course, but the church blocked all enquiries. They'd washed their hands of it. OK, so it was then around 70 years previously, but my gran was still alive. The hail mary part of my family treated my gran as a pariah as she'd left the church, taking her 18 children with her, and become a methodist, the nearest thing to not having a religion in those days.
So I know I'm resentful. I know my emotions are perverted by the perversions of the nuns when they beat, starved and killed those in their charge. The nuns were not the church but the church defended them.
That was bad enough but I get drawn to the revellations of child abuse etc of the church. What really gets me is the way the curch covered it up. There are bound to be bad apples. What is really offensive to me is the way the religious hierarchy - as well as the police and politicans - covered up their actions and left them to offend again and ruin the lives of even more children.
My gran is beyond aplogies now, long dead, and the nuns are beyond punishment, unless there is a god when they will be in a hell of their own making, so it is over. Had it been history then I'd accept it. But it is going on now, in other countries at least. And those at the top of the church think first of what's best for them. How corrupt is that?
There are rules, made by the bosses. They are there not for the welfare of people but the prolonging of the chruch institutions.
singlecoil said:
I didn't really expect when I got up this morning that I would be defending the Roman Catholic church, but the problem that I have, if I don't, is that then those people who are unable to distinguish between an organisation itself, and a good number of people within that organisation, will then be able to propagate their own version of 'the truth' unchallenged.
As it is, I've known a good many people within the RC church, and they were all pretty good people.
It is those in charge, who dictate the rules and sermon that are guilty of the cover up though.As it is, I've known a good many people within the RC church, and they were all pretty good people.
To hide and protect a child molester for the sake of your organisations image, over and over again, therefore putting more children at risk is a rotten way to go about life.
Those that did this are still in authority within the church, where instead they should be in jail.
KB_S1 said:
singlecoil said:
I didn't really expect when I got up this morning that I would be defending the Roman Catholic church, but the problem that I have, if I don't, is that then those people who are unable to distinguish between an organisation itself, and a good number of people within that organisation, will then be able to propagate their own version of 'the truth' unchallenged.
As it is, I've known a good many people within the RC church, and they were all pretty good people.
It is those in charge, who dictate the rules and sermon that are guilty of the cover up though.As it is, I've known a good many people within the RC church, and they were all pretty good people.
To hide and protect a child molester for the sake of your organisations image, over and over again, therefore putting more children at risk is a rotten way to go about life.
Those that did this are still in authority within the church, where instead they should be in jail.
Those people who are using soundbites such as 'rotten to the core', what exactly do you mean by that? Are you comparing the church to an apple, for instance, where such a description would mean that the fruit was unusable? Or perhaps it's not quite as bad as that, but the expression 'rotten to the core' is too good not to use, even if it doesn't quite fit?
Let's suppose you are on holiday in Ireland, and you come across a local priest. How would you feel about him? Lock him up on sight?
Let's suppose you are on holiday in Ireland, and you come across a local priest. How would you feel about him? Lock him up on sight?
When the head of the Irish church makes a statement, absolving himself of guilt/responsibility for his inaction in dealing with a known child molester by saying he had "no authority" over that priest, I find that pathetic.
When his bosses in the Vatican support this statement, and we now know this priest continued to abuse for another 15 years, I see an organisation that is rotten through and through.
If this were an isolated incident it would be a disgrace. This is not an isolated incident, it is one of dozens, that we know of. The story is pretty much the same every time though.
Suppress the evidence, protect the 'good name' of the church.
Rotten to the core.
When his bosses in the Vatican support this statement, and we now know this priest continued to abuse for another 15 years, I see an organisation that is rotten through and through.
If this were an isolated incident it would be a disgrace. This is not an isolated incident, it is one of dozens, that we know of. The story is pretty much the same every time though.
Suppress the evidence, protect the 'good name' of the church.
Rotten to the core.
singlecoil said:
Didn't fancy tackling any of the questions I posed then? I don't blame you, they were tough.
I am actually working just now, quickly checking in during uploads.The matter is pretty clear from what I say though.
Rotten to the core, yes a soundbite, but one that sums up my view of the Vatican and its hierarchy.
Like a bad fruit, only fit to be thrown out.
The people in charge cast themselves as the ultimate moral authority, yet continue to absolve themselves from their part in allowing continued child abuse, amongst many other things.
To support these people in my opinion is, morally wrong.
Of course talk like this in Scotland and I risk being assaulted for sectarianism. Despite being christened in the catholic church, and being educated in a catholic school.
My contempt is not exclusively towards the vatican though, it is just who we are discussing here.
As for meeting priests in Ireland? Well every individual should be treated as such but, supporting that regime doesn't get you off to a good start.
singlecoil said:
Those people who are using soundbites such as 'rotten to the core', what exactly do you mean by that?
I mean that the very core of the chuch, namely the Pope, who heads up the whole rancid crapheap, is personally a paedophile enabler. He, himself, personally, as cardinal Ratzinger, was responsible for church discipline, and he gave orders for child rapist priest in North America to be moved to other diocese where they could carry on raping children whilst diffusing any problems in the diocese where he had already been child raping.He should have been arrested when he touched down in Britain. A disgusting excuse for a human being.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff