EDL leader Tommy Robinson vs Tell MAMA's Fiyaz Mughal
Discussion
From this morning's show. Thought you lot might be interested.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/tommy-robinson-admits-edl-has...
http://www.lbc.co.uk/tommy-robinson-admits-edl-has...
Fantic SuperT said:
Tommy Robinson makes an interesting point that anyone inarticulate is labelled far-right. I don't know enough about the EDL to determine if they are far-right, but I notice the BBC made its opinion clear immediately.
I don't know very much about Tommy Robinson, so I cannot say if he is a good bloke or not, but this point that he makes is very valid. This is a great example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL1jDcAHkc8 Here you have a bloke who clearly struggles to articulate himself. The point he was making back in 2011 about Muslim rape gangs has been proved to be tragically correct, and yet it was the case that rather than address the point he was making (very badly) he got ridiculed for him sounding like he was saying "Muslamic Ray Guns" And then some wonder why people get angry?
Haven't listened to this particular piece but he's made some valid points in the past (I recall Paxman interviewing him a while back) however the methods his supporters use to 'protest' come very close to hooliganism imo. And the counter protesters from UAF are just as bad.
Even Robinson/Yaxley-Lennon himself is a bullying thug. A wife beater who goes around assaulting police officers and using false passports to enter America isn't really the type of guy who should be leading others in the fight against religious extremism.
Even Robinson/Yaxley-Lennon himself is a bullying thug. A wife beater who goes around assaulting police officers and using false passports to enter America isn't really the type of guy who should be leading others in the fight against religious extremism.
He always comes across as being fairly measured when interviewed. I think the "mainstream" approach of trying to paint him as some bigotted blood thirsty rabble rouser has thoroughly backfired. And rightly so.
People do have legitimate concerns about the rise of aggressive Islam, and those mainstream politicians and commentators who decry the EDL as racist have, to a man, avoided them.
People do have legitimate concerns about the rise of aggressive Islam, and those mainstream politicians and commentators who decry the EDL as racist have, to a man, avoided them.
IMO he has the same problems as Farage. Fairly straight forward points and asking the tough questions, but inevitably swamped by brainless chimps who miss the point completely.
Interesting comment regarding articulation across the classes. Probably a very interesting thesis for a post grad there.
Interesting comment regarding articulation across the classes. Probably a very interesting thesis for a post grad there.
There is a general tendency for journalists looking at basically left wing groups (EG the St Pauls protesters) to ignore the obvious nutters and assume that the more articulate and reasonable sounding someone is the more truly representative of the group they are.
When looking at a group perceived as right wing or libertarian, (EG the US tea party) they do completely the opposite. Assuming that anyone sounding sensible is just a front and the loonies are the real thing.
When looking at a group perceived as right wing or libertarian, (EG the US tea party) they do completely the opposite. Assuming that anyone sounding sensible is just a front and the loonies are the real thing.
Dr Jekyll said:
Assuming that anyone sounding sensible is just a front and the loonies are the real thing.
Hmmm, not sure about that theory - you do get some nutters who are actually nutters. But yes, anyone who promises full employment, or to make the trains run on time will be a nutter.Victor McDade said:
Haven't listened to this particular piece but he's made some valid points in the past (I recall Paxman interviewing him a while back) however the methods his supporters use to 'protest' come very close to hooliganism imo. And the counter protesters from UAF are just as bad.
Even Robinson/Yaxley-Lennon himself is a bullying thug. A wife beater who goes around assaulting police officers and using false passports to enter America isn't really the type of guy who should be leading others in the fight against religious extremism.
He's also a convicted hooligan and convicted for assault on a fellow EDL memberEven Robinson/Yaxley-Lennon himself is a bullying thug. A wife beater who goes around assaulting police officers and using false passports to enter America isn't really the type of guy who should be leading others in the fight against religious extremism.
WeirdNeville said:
And Tommy Robinson isn't his real name, he's recently released from prison for entering America on his brothers passport, and has a conviction for assault on a police officer.
I didn't think he made any good points in the interview. I thought he came across as a whining victim mentality without anything positive to contribute.
EDL are far right, they are a loosely organised bunch of football hooligans with a political wing which is sadly gaining ground. It's sad that they're given air time that could be put to better use.
So you would rather they were censored?I didn't think he made any good points in the interview. I thought he came across as a whining victim mentality without anything positive to contribute.
EDL are far right, they are a loosely organised bunch of football hooligans with a political wing which is sadly gaining ground. It's sad that they're given air time that could be put to better use.
I disagree with 99% of what they appear to represent, but I'll damn well do my best to make sure they have their say as much as anyone else.
Art0ir said:
WeirdNeville said:
And Tommy Robinson isn't his real name, he's recently released from prison for entering America on his brothers passport, and has a conviction for assault on a police officer.
I didn't think he made any good points in the interview. I thought he came across as a whining victim mentality without anything positive to contribute.
EDL are far right, they are a loosely organised bunch of football hooligans with a political wing which is sadly gaining ground. It's sad that they're given air time that could be put to better use.
So you would rather they were censored?I didn't think he made any good points in the interview. I thought he came across as a whining victim mentality without anything positive to contribute.
EDL are far right, they are a loosely organised bunch of football hooligans with a political wing which is sadly gaining ground. It's sad that they're given air time that could be put to better use.
I disagree with 99% of what they appear to represent, but I'll damn well do my best to make sure they have their say as much as anyone else.
greygoose said:
Art0ir said:
WeirdNeville said:
And Tommy Robinson isn't his real name, he's recently released from prison for entering America on his brothers passport, and has a conviction for assault on a police officer.
I didn't think he made any good points in the interview. I thought he came across as a whining victim mentality without anything positive to contribute.
EDL are far right, they are a loosely organised bunch of football hooligans with a political wing which is sadly gaining ground. It's sad that they're given air time that could be put to better use.
So you would rather they were censored?I didn't think he made any good points in the interview. I thought he came across as a whining victim mentality without anything positive to contribute.
EDL are far right, they are a loosely organised bunch of football hooligans with a political wing which is sadly gaining ground. It's sad that they're given air time that could be put to better use.
I disagree with 99% of what they appear to represent, but I'll damn well do my best to make sure they have their say as much as anyone else.
He was on something like the Daily Politics the other day, making some seemingly sensible points there, but rather than engage him in debate Andrew Neil more or less just sat there saying racist, racist, racist. I know enough about the EDL to not have wished to know more so far, but interviews like that put me off the BBC more than the EDL.
andymadmak said:
Fantic SuperT said:
Tommy Robinson makes an interesting point that anyone inarticulate is labelled far-right. I don't know enough about the EDL to determine if they are far-right, but I notice the BBC made its opinion clear immediately.
I don't know very much about Tommy Robinson, so I cannot say if he is a good bloke or not, but this point that he makes is very valid. This is a great example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL1jDcAHkc8 Here you have a bloke who clearly struggles to articulate himself. The point he was making back in 2011 about Muslim rape gangs has been proved to be tragically correct, and yet it was the case that rather than address the point he was making (very badly) he got ridiculed for him sounding like he was saying "Muslamic Ray Guns" And then some wonder why people get angry?
You Andy become part of the problem when you say look ,this brain-washed geezer, he, has a valid point! when clearly he has no point or opinion of his own and all he did is repeat crap others have told him about another section of the community.
Please do yourself a favour and stop associating yourself with Mr Muslamic Ray Gun, it does your credibility no good.
ETA: On the other hand, if you want a sensible debate about integration, and whether Muslims or Jews are allowed to cling on to their religious beliefs, AND whether traditions and customs are really clashing with UK laws or is it just a phenomenon blown out of proportion, AND all this discussed without a race card being shown then I am all game.
Edited by allnighter on Monday 17th June 19:09
Terminator X said:
Isn't he and the EDL simply representing the Working Class view or chavs as we like call them today? Afaik the Labour Party used to do that albeit now batter them along with the other political parties, no wonder EDL membership is "gathering pace".
TX.
Not really, they mostly seem to be hooligans looking for a fight once football season is over hence more EDL activity between May and August. The UAF and other weirdo hippies are definite die hard Labour supporters.TX.
allnighter said:
This is not the first time you show support for Mr 'Muslamic Ray Gun', and somehow try ,albeit in vain, to give some justification to his irrational rant about 'Iraqi law' in London and other them & us clap trap he's been fed.That makes him no different to any other thicko sponge Bob/Ali type who get easily brain washed with extremist dogma.They end up repeating said dogma like mindless parrots without an effort to use their own judgement on what is right or wrong about anything they are told.
You Andy become part of the problem when you say look ,this brain-washed geezer, he, has a valid point! when clearly he has no point or opinion of his own and all he did is repeat crap others have told him about another section of the community.
Please do yourself a favour and stop associating yourself with Mr Muslamic Ray Gun, it does your credibility no good.
ETA: On the other hand, if you want a sensible debate about integration, and whether Muslims or Jews are allowed to cling on to their religious beliefs, AND whether traditions and customs are really clashing with UK laws or is it just a phenomenon blown out of proportion, AND all this discussed without a race card being shown then I am all game.
Lol. And I mean genuine lol! You honestly think I support him and those like him? You Andy become part of the problem when you say look ,this brain-washed geezer, he, has a valid point! when clearly he has no point or opinion of his own and all he did is repeat crap others have told him about another section of the community.
Please do yourself a favour and stop associating yourself with Mr Muslamic Ray Gun, it does your credibility no good.
ETA: On the other hand, if you want a sensible debate about integration, and whether Muslims or Jews are allowed to cling on to their religious beliefs, AND whether traditions and customs are really clashing with UK laws or is it just a phenomenon blown out of proportion, AND all this discussed without a race card being shown then I am all game.
Edited by allnighter on Monday 17th June 19:09
I use this fellow as a classic example of EVERYTHING thats wrong with the race debate and why both sides are wrong.
You fail to see my point at all. The fact is, that as thick and as inarticulate, brain washed and thuggish as this man is, he does, by whatever quirk of fate actually talk about something that many many working class people in this country are concerned about. He speaks a language that many will relate to, and bizarrely even understand. That you chose to ridicule him is typical of your side of the debate.....and the problem with that is that on those occasions where there is a kernel of truth in what he is saying ( Muslim rape gangs) it's actually you that looks like a t
t in the end for deliberately chosing to missunderstand him rather than engage with what he is saying and deal with it. Do you deny that many working class people will hear what he is saying, and in light of recent events be saying "see he was right all along" ! ? Do you not think that by his being right on this point some people will then tend to lend greater credance to other things he might be saying- things that could be wholly wrong? Do you not think that by ridiculing him and chosing to ignore the plight of the victims you do, in the eyes of many working class people excuse YOURSELF from the debate?
What are we trying to achieve here? Personally I thought it was greater understanding, peace, better community relations, safer streets, the marginalsiation of extremists of all types. You won't achieve any of those things by deliberately chosing to missunderstand people for the purpose of cheap comedy mocking and derision. All you do is rob the poor and inarticuate of their voice, their place at the debating table.
Me a part of the problem? Look in the mirror matey.
andymadmak said:
allnighter said:
This is not the first time you show support for Mr 'Muslamic Ray Gun', and somehow try ,albeit in vain, to give some justification to his irrational rant about 'Iraqi law' in London and other them & us clap trap he's been fed.That makes him no different to any other thicko sponge Bob/Ali type who get easily brain washed with extremist dogma.They end up repeating said dogma like mindless parrots without an effort to use their own judgement on what is right or wrong about anything they are told.
You Andy become part of the problem when you say look ,this brain-washed geezer, he, has a valid point! when clearly he has no point or opinion of his own and all he did is repeat crap others have told him about another section of the community.
Please do yourself a favour and stop associating yourself with Mr Muslamic Ray Gun, it does your credibility no good.
ETA: On the other hand, if you want a sensible debate about integration, and whether Muslims or Jews are allowed to cling on to their religious beliefs, AND whether traditions and customs are really clashing with UK laws or is it just a phenomenon blown out of proportion, AND all this discussed without a race card being shown then I am all game.
Lol. And I mean genuine lol! You honestly think I support him and those like him? You Andy become part of the problem when you say look ,this brain-washed geezer, he, has a valid point! when clearly he has no point or opinion of his own and all he did is repeat crap others have told him about another section of the community.
Please do yourself a favour and stop associating yourself with Mr Muslamic Ray Gun, it does your credibility no good.
ETA: On the other hand, if you want a sensible debate about integration, and whether Muslims or Jews are allowed to cling on to their religious beliefs, AND whether traditions and customs are really clashing with UK laws or is it just a phenomenon blown out of proportion, AND all this discussed without a race card being shown then I am all game.
Edited by allnighter on Monday 17th June 19:09
I use this fellow as a classic example of EVERYTHING thats wrong with the race debate and why both sides are wrong.
You fail to see my point at all. The fact is, that as thick and as inarticulate, brain washed and thuggish as this man is, he does, by whatever quirk of fate actually talk about something that many many working class people in this country are concerned about. He speaks a language that many will relate to, and bizarrely even understand. That you chose to ridicule him is typical of your side of the debate.....and the problem with that is that on those occasions where there is a kernel of truth in what he is saying ( Muslim rape gangs) it's actually you that looks like a t
t in the end for deliberately chosing to missunderstand him rather than engage with what he is saying and deal with it. Do you deny that many working class people will hear what he is saying, and in light of recent events be saying "see he was right all along" ! ? Do you not think that by his being right on this point some people will then tend to lend greater credance to other things he might be saying- things that could be wholly wrong? Do you not think that by ridiculing him and chosing to ignore the plight of the victims you do, in the eyes of many working class people excuse YOURSELF from the debate?
What are we trying to achieve here? Personally I thought it was greater understanding, peace, better community relations, safer streets, the marginalsiation of extremists of all types. You won't achieve any of those things by deliberately chosing to missunderstand people for the purpose of cheap comedy mocking and derision. All you do is rob the poor and inarticuate of their voice, their place at the debating table.
Me a part of the problem? Look in the mirror matey.
Nothing annoys me more than those who pooh-pooh any views that don't fit well with the naive fallacy that is peddled as 'multiculturalism' in this country. I see it on many of the discussion programs when someone like TR.comes on, instead of meeting him head on with well reasoned debate the opposing speakers just say "he's this, he's that, he said this, he said that, you shouldn't listen to him, la-la-la". There is a balance and harmony that we all want but that means compromise and a coming together that suits as many as possible, addressing the negatives that do exist with certain immigrant cultures and religions and within indigenous communities. We can't stick our fingers in our ears; bllindly following one school of thought is very dangerous, as is totally writing off another before trying to understand it first. 'You're either with us or against us' is the politics of idiots and bullies. It's a statement that tries to silence dissent with the threat of being labelled as the enemy if you simply question the status quo or attempt to reason that the opposite side may speak an ounce of truth and sense here and there.
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