Cars hackable by DAB Radio/Infotainment
Discussion
BBC Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33622298
Had a search and couldn't find a thread, although doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
I read it as sensationalist scaremongering carp, I would have thought even though everything runs on CAN that the engine/brakes are completely separate to things like the rain sensors and aircon?
Had a search and couldn't find a thread, although doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
I read it as sensationalist scaremongering carp, I would have thought even though everything runs on CAN that the engine/brakes are completely separate to things like the rain sensors and aircon?
A lot of kit is CAN these days. Even simple stuff like thermocouples. We have some on the system we make and there are 3 sensors with their own little electronics packages for converting the signal into an understandable number and sending it out over CAN.
Electric power steering that also does parallel parking for you? Well that'll all be CAN and they can have access to that. The list is really endless. Everything is monitored on cars today for safety and emissions purposes. It all helps with Model Based engine control strategies as well, the more data, the better. Its not just a set of lookup tables anymore, its a mash of theoretical and empirical models and engines will change many many parameters in order to try meet expectations of performance and emissions. The engine we are currently testing for dual fuel operation is often seen "experimenting" with diesel injection timing, in order to try correct its emissions (that we are throwing off).
I believe I read somewhere that a current diesel engine could have something like 10^13 different combinations of set points. Theres just that many systems and levels of variability in all of them! Everything is monitored, nearly everything is controllable, right from the ECU.
I would have thought foot brakes would still be mechanical though? Though perhaps with the advent of EV and Hybrid vehicles, the regenerative braking will all be DBW and thus controllable from somewhere else other than the foot pedal.
Electric power steering that also does parallel parking for you? Well that'll all be CAN and they can have access to that. The list is really endless. Everything is monitored on cars today for safety and emissions purposes. It all helps with Model Based engine control strategies as well, the more data, the better. Its not just a set of lookup tables anymore, its a mash of theoretical and empirical models and engines will change many many parameters in order to try meet expectations of performance and emissions. The engine we are currently testing for dual fuel operation is often seen "experimenting" with diesel injection timing, in order to try correct its emissions (that we are throwing off).
I believe I read somewhere that a current diesel engine could have something like 10^13 different combinations of set points. Theres just that many systems and levels of variability in all of them! Everything is monitored, nearly everything is controllable, right from the ECU.
I would have thought foot brakes would still be mechanical though? Though perhaps with the advent of EV and Hybrid vehicles, the regenerative braking will all be DBW and thus controllable from somewhere else other than the foot pedal.
The only way to defeat to sort of gits who would perpetrate this sort of hack is to think like them.
The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
eharding said:
The only way to defeat to sort of gits who would perpetrate this sort of hack is to think like them.
The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I would have thought foot brakes would still be mechanical though? Though perhaps with the advent of EV and Hybrid vehicles, the regenerative braking will all be DBW and thus controllable from somewhere else other than the foot pedal.
foot brake might be, but the ABS unit certainly is not!just about all of them are now part of the stability control package, and thus you can 'command' them to apply the brakes (all or individually).
more of a worry would be that you could also disable the brakes by locking out the pedal (like is done to prevent wheel locking - think ICE mode).
Scuffers said:
foot brake might be, but the ABS unit certainly is not!
just about all of them are now part of the stability control package, and thus you can 'command' them to apply the brakes (all or individually).
more of a worry would be that you could also disable the brakes by locking out the pedal (like is done to prevent wheel locking - think ICE mode).
My car can apply pressure to the brakes if it detects an impending collision to set the pads against the discs to improve response times.just about all of them are now part of the stability control package, and thus you can 'command' them to apply the brakes (all or individually).
more of a worry would be that you could also disable the brakes by locking out the pedal (like is done to prevent wheel locking - think ICE mode).
I've seen one of these hacks in action.
Got stuck behind a small Hyundai on the way in to work this morning. The hacker kept applying the brakes in a short, sharp fashion each time a corner or vehicle coming the other way approached. They also did something to the steering as the car seemed to be heading straight on corners and only turning at the last minute.
The old lady behind the wheel looked shocked. I think it wasn't helped by the hackers limiting her speed to 30 mph in a 60 mph zone.
Terrible stuff this hacking. Needs to be stopped now!
Got stuck behind a small Hyundai on the way in to work this morning. The hacker kept applying the brakes in a short, sharp fashion each time a corner or vehicle coming the other way approached. They also did something to the steering as the car seemed to be heading straight on corners and only turning at the last minute.
The old lady behind the wheel looked shocked. I think it wasn't helped by the hackers limiting her speed to 30 mph in a 60 mph zone.
Terrible stuff this hacking. Needs to be stopped now!
eharding said:
The only way to defeat to sort of gits who would perpetrate this sort of hack is to think like them.
The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
Reminds me of the old joke about Land Rover R&D engineers looking into producing PCs in the 90's. The project was canned because they couldn't figure out how to get them to leak oil.The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
I may be way off beam on this, but if they can access via DAB (and 75% of all new cars have DAB radios) and 'just' affect the ABS (all new cars so fitted) then how long before hysterical questions are asked in parliament, or 'hacking' is used as an excuse after a road traffic accident?
Great short video by Vice with a demo of a car being hacked..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs
...this is part two of three (I think) in which they also hack your phone on the fly amongst other things.
Car hacking will the the TWOC of the modern age. In fact, hacking full stop will be the crime of the modern age once the so-called Internet of Things come about.
O/T Internet of Things is beyond crap for a name, there must be something a bit catchier, no? Non-sentient 'net? Kettlenet? Stuffnet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs
...this is part two of three (I think) in which they also hack your phone on the fly amongst other things.
Car hacking will the the TWOC of the modern age. In fact, hacking full stop will be the crime of the modern age once the so-called Internet of Things come about.
O/T Internet of Things is beyond crap for a name, there must be something a bit catchier, no? Non-sentient 'net? Kettlenet? Stuffnet?
eharding said:
The only way to defeat to sort of gits who would perpetrate this sort of hack is to think like them.
The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
Yes! P38 would also be able to lock everyone out.The solution would be to somehow trick them into subverting an after-market networked entertainment system wired into a P38 Range Rover.
Before they know what they've gotten themselves into, the Rangie would infect the upstream link into the hacker host system, rendering every piece of equipment networked to it variously unserviceable, functional but borderline explosive, or just hilariously unreliable. It would also have a go at emptying the hackers' bank accounts, on a recurring basis.
That'll teach the barstewards.
funkyrobot said:
I've seen one of these hacks in action.
Got stuck behind a small Hyundai on the way in to work this morning. The hacker kept applying the brakes in a short, sharp fashion each time a corner or vehicle coming the other way approached. They also did something to the steering as the car seemed to be heading straight on corners and only turning at the last minute.
The old lady behind the wheel looked shocked. I think it wasn't helped by the hackers limiting her speed to 30 mph in a 60 mph zone.
Terrible stuff this hacking. Needs to be stopped now!
Got stuck behind a small Hyundai on the way in to work this morning. The hacker kept applying the brakes in a short, sharp fashion each time a corner or vehicle coming the other way approached. They also did something to the steering as the car seemed to be heading straight on corners and only turning at the last minute.
The old lady behind the wheel looked shocked. I think it wasn't helped by the hackers limiting her speed to 30 mph in a 60 mph zone.
Terrible stuff this hacking. Needs to be stopped now!
Suffolk must have a very high percentage of hackers.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff