Ireland's PM talks about Irish unification.
Discussion
Jockman said:
What % was that of the electorate, Eric?
Was the question not about the UK staying in the EU, not NI?
Of course it was. But, as with Scotland, there are those who will use the national variations in the referendum result to push other political agendas.Was the question not about the UK staying in the EU, not NI?
This was always a likely outcome of the EU referendum and one I don't think the English properly appreciated.
That's the problem with referendums. They always produce a result - but not one that satisfies all of the people. So those who were on the losing side start asking for either a re-run (if the result was close) or start looking for a different referendum with the criteria amended to suit their geographical area.
I don't think re-unification of Ireland is a realistic prospect for generations.
Of far more importance is how the land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is now going to be managed. Hardly anybody, on either side of the border, wants a return of the old style border post system with security and customs posts.
However, as the Republic is remaining inside the EU for the foreseeable future, if the border remains open (as it currently is) anybody wishing to access the UK from ANYWHERE in the EU can simply travel freely to the Irish Republic and wander unchallenged into Northern Ireland i.e. the UK.
It's a serious issue IF the control of EU immigration into the UK is something that the government is serious about tackling.
There is a meeting in Cardiff today between the UK and Ireland on this very matter.
I don't think re-unification of Ireland is a realistic prospect for generations.
Of far more importance is how the land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is now going to be managed. Hardly anybody, on either side of the border, wants a return of the old style border post system with security and customs posts.
However, as the Republic is remaining inside the EU for the foreseeable future, if the border remains open (as it currently is) anybody wishing to access the UK from ANYWHERE in the EU can simply travel freely to the Irish Republic and wander unchallenged into Northern Ireland i.e. the UK.
It's a serious issue IF the control of EU immigration into the UK is something that the government is serious about tackling.
There is a meeting in Cardiff today between the UK and Ireland on this very matter.
desolate said:
Jockman said:
What % was that of the electorate, Eric?
Was the question not about the UK staying in the EU, not NI?
It was the % of the electorate that vote and the question was the same as elsewhere - whether to remain in the EU or not.Was the question not about the UK staying in the EU, not NI?
The two thirds that voted Remain represented only 41.5% IIRC of the electorate and an even smaller % of the Scottish population as a whole.
Further more the question was should the UK Remain / Leave - not Scotland, nor NI.
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
Jockman said:
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
That is blindingly obvious. But it won't stop those who want to push a political agenda to use these results to further their aims.So just saying that the question wasn't asked is irrelevant. Those with an agenda will always try to gain a political advantage or score a political point when an opportunity presents itself. The geographical differences in the referendum vote have provided just such opportunities.
Jockman said:
It is the same point in the Scottish thread.
The two thirds that voted Remain represented only 41.5% IIRC of the electorate and an even smaller % of the Scottish population as a whole.
Further more the question was should the UK Remain / Leave - not Scotland, nor NI.
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
I don't think anybody is arguing with this... are they?The two thirds that voted Remain represented only 41.5% IIRC of the electorate and an even smaller % of the Scottish population as a whole.
Further more the question was should the UK Remain / Leave - not Scotland, nor NI.
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
I feel like I'm missing something with your post. I probably am, to be honest - not unusual!
The thing is can ROI suddenly take on the Barnett equivalent which goes to NI from England currently?
It's the same for Scotland
For a reunited Ireland it's simple boader wise as it will be the whole of Ireland.
For Scotland then a hard boarder would have to be setup - and given 85% of its GDP comes from rauK that's a massive barrier let alone any tariffs the UK and EU would land upon.
For ROI given what is it 80% of all its trade is with the U.K. They must be thinking about all options imagine if it also left the EU and could then trade freely with the U.K. Or who knows a Devo Max option under UK control?? Most of Sin Feinn were happy with that in the 1930's it's only a minority group who solit and formed Finna Foul which in turn split its fully. And frankly if they look at the economic performance they have had since 1920 to date it's shocking relative to the UK and self inflicted. If they had stayed what could that part of the U.K. Be doing now and how prosperous would it be???
Interesting times.
It's the same for Scotland
For a reunited Ireland it's simple boader wise as it will be the whole of Ireland.
For Scotland then a hard boarder would have to be setup - and given 85% of its GDP comes from rauK that's a massive barrier let alone any tariffs the UK and EU would land upon.
For ROI given what is it 80% of all its trade is with the U.K. They must be thinking about all options imagine if it also left the EU and could then trade freely with the U.K. Or who knows a Devo Max option under UK control?? Most of Sin Feinn were happy with that in the 1930's it's only a minority group who solit and formed Finna Foul which in turn split its fully. And frankly if they look at the economic performance they have had since 1920 to date it's shocking relative to the UK and self inflicted. If they had stayed what could that part of the U.K. Be doing now and how prosperous would it be???
Interesting times.
iphonedyou said:
Jockman said:
It is the same point in the Scottish thread.
The two thirds that voted Remain represented only 41.5% IIRC of the electorate and an even smaller % of the Scottish population as a whole.
Further more the question was should the UK Remain / Leave - not Scotland, nor NI.
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
I don't think anybody is arguing with this... are they?The two thirds that voted Remain represented only 41.5% IIRC of the electorate and an even smaller % of the Scottish population as a whole.
Further more the question was should the UK Remain / Leave - not Scotland, nor NI.
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
I feel like I'm missing something with your post. I probably am, to be honest - not unusual!
Other than that, nope, straight forward analysis of the vote.
Eric Mc said:
Jockman said:
Nobody ever voted for NI to Remain in the UK as that question was never asked.
....So just saying that the question wasn't asked is irrelevant....Opportunists will do what they do.
I think we are actually agreeing. Those who want to push agendas will always have a go - even if a bit tongue in cheek.
The only issue of importance for the next ten years at least is how the border is administered. And the Irish Republic will be in no mood to stump up any additional money to police it.
The only issue of importance for the next ten years at least is how the border is administered. And the Irish Republic will be in no mood to stump up any additional money to police it.
Eric Mc said:
That's the problem with referendums. They always produce a result - but not one that satisfies all of the people. So those who were on the losing side start asking for either a re-run (if the result was close) or start looking for a different referendum with the criteria amended to suit their geographical area.
I don't think re-unification of Ireland is a realistic prospect for generations.
Of far more importance is how the land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is now going to be managed. Hardly anybody, on either side of the border, wants a return of the old style border post system with security and customs posts.
However, as the Republic is remaining inside the EU for the foreseeable future, if the border remains open (as it currently is) anybody wishing to access the UK from ANYWHERE in the EU can simply travel freely to the Irish Republic and wander unchallenged into Northern Ireland i.e. the UK.
It's a serious issue IF the control of EU immigration into the UK is something that the government is serious about tackling.
There is a meeting in Cardiff today between the UK and Ireland on this very matter.
Only if they are an EU national / hold an EU passport. In which case they wander into the uK too, as long as they go through the passport checks that are just as stringent in ROI as they are here. I don't think re-unification of Ireland is a realistic prospect for generations.
Of far more importance is how the land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is now going to be managed. Hardly anybody, on either side of the border, wants a return of the old style border post system with security and customs posts.
However, as the Republic is remaining inside the EU for the foreseeable future, if the border remains open (as it currently is) anybody wishing to access the UK from ANYWHERE in the EU can simply travel freely to the Irish Republic and wander unchallenged into Northern Ireland i.e. the UK.
It's a serious issue IF the control of EU immigration into the UK is something that the government is serious about tackling.
There is a meeting in Cardiff today between the UK and Ireland on this very matter.
If they are a refugee / non EU passport holder the they have to go through the full passport checks to get into ROI or the UK first.
Jockman said:
To be fair, there is a slightly different dynamic with the NI question as we are talking about a divided country.
Other than that, nope, straight forward analysis of the vote.
Everything is different from the Scottish question - not least, joining another country (the majority of which do not want NI to join, and the majority of NI citizens don't actually want to join) rather than seeking independence.Other than that, nope, straight forward analysis of the vote.
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