Delusional disorder
Discussion
I read a fascinating story on the BBC web site this morning about delusional disorder. It was the story of an entire family uprooted by a complete web of lies and fantasy, you can read it here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-42951788
Two thoughts came of it.
One, I wonder how carefully they checked the back story - could it, in fact, be Pauline who is delusional (it is pretty far fetched)?
And secondly it reminded me of a woman I dated twenty years ago who lived in a completely delusional world so convincing that it had me fooled for nearly six months (it was a long distance relationship, which made it much easier for her to lie). Everything from the job she did to the cars she owned or drove to the ownership of the house she lived in was fictitious. The weirdest thing was that even when it unravelled at the end, she clearly still believed her own stories.
There are some very odd people out there...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-42951788
Two thoughts came of it.
One, I wonder how carefully they checked the back story - could it, in fact, be Pauline who is delusional (it is pretty far fetched)?
And secondly it reminded me of a woman I dated twenty years ago who lived in a completely delusional world so convincing that it had me fooled for nearly six months (it was a long distance relationship, which made it much easier for her to lie). Everything from the job she did to the cars she owned or drove to the ownership of the house she lived in was fictitious. The weirdest thing was that even when it unravelled at the end, she clearly still believed her own stories.
There are some very odd people out there...
i thought that was a well written piece. folie a deux is really quite rare
the ICD (classification system) refers to this as an "induced" psychosis with one sufferer imposing onto the second. here the mother initially seems to have assimilated stan's beliefs. but ,reading on and looking at the development of the situation, you question whether mum was the primary and stan the acceptor. ie, to have been undergoing her own personal psychosis and the two have just aligned themselves over time. in the later stages though it seems that stan has become primary ?
it doesn't have to be folie a deux - it can be 3, 4 or even "en famille" but pauline seems to have been attempting to refute or disprove the information so perhaps not truly delusional herself. if she were, i'd expect her to seek evidence to support the beliefs. delusions are fixed, false and not amenable to reason, remaining absolutely "truth" to those experiencing them.
delusions of misidentification are also possibly in the mix - the reports of people being replaced with imposters, doubles etc.. these tend to be more common in organic psychosis (physical cause) than in functional illness and thought to be related to anomalies of vision and recognition - disconnects between the visual cortex and other brain areas/functions. Capgras Syndrome/Delusion is the more often diagnosed condition but these presentations more often sit with neuro rather than being clear cut mental health. i guess the differential would be that beliefs in imposters were an extension of a pre-existing paranoid delusional belief system rather than a stand-alone clinical entity. delusions of misidentification do tend to be "mono-thematic" though, not occurring as part of entrenched, systemised abnormal thought content.
although having said all that ^, even clinically paranoid people can sometimes have real enemies
thanks for popping that up !
paul
paul
the ICD (classification system) refers to this as an "induced" psychosis with one sufferer imposing onto the second. here the mother initially seems to have assimilated stan's beliefs. but ,reading on and looking at the development of the situation, you question whether mum was the primary and stan the acceptor. ie, to have been undergoing her own personal psychosis and the two have just aligned themselves over time. in the later stages though it seems that stan has become primary ?
it doesn't have to be folie a deux - it can be 3, 4 or even "en famille" but pauline seems to have been attempting to refute or disprove the information so perhaps not truly delusional herself. if she were, i'd expect her to seek evidence to support the beliefs. delusions are fixed, false and not amenable to reason, remaining absolutely "truth" to those experiencing them.
delusions of misidentification are also possibly in the mix - the reports of people being replaced with imposters, doubles etc.. these tend to be more common in organic psychosis (physical cause) than in functional illness and thought to be related to anomalies of vision and recognition - disconnects between the visual cortex and other brain areas/functions. Capgras Syndrome/Delusion is the more often diagnosed condition but these presentations more often sit with neuro rather than being clear cut mental health. i guess the differential would be that beliefs in imposters were an extension of a pre-existing paranoid delusional belief system rather than a stand-alone clinical entity. delusions of misidentification do tend to be "mono-thematic" though, not occurring as part of entrenched, systemised abnormal thought content.
although having said all that ^, even clinically paranoid people can sometimes have real enemies
thanks for popping that up !
paul
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Tuesday 27th February 11:35
Quite incredible that as an apparently serious journalist, worked for CBC for years and is no a professor of journalism, she was so f
king gullible!
Reading the story, as soon as it said he was a church guy, and was following the mother, it was clear as day to me what is was all about. Many would say as a Church leader, he was a fantasist period, never mind all the other bks he was seemingly spouting.
Such people can only manipulate those that want to be or who are not quite in the real world themselves. When will she be getting the BBC gig! lol
king gullible! Reading the story, as soon as it said he was a church guy, and was following the mother, it was clear as day to me what is was all about. Many would say as a Church leader, he was a fantasist period, never mind all the other b
ks he was seemingly spouting. Such people can only manipulate those that want to be or who are not quite in the real world themselves. When will she be getting the BBC gig! lol
I think the most likely explanation is that the mother was in some kind of thrall to the minister, look at the picture of the mother and minister, then look at the picture of the minister and the daughter. If you read it carefully he is at the centre of each piece of the story. Interesting never the less.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Tuesday 27th February 14:36
poo at Paul's said:
Quite incredible that as an apparently serious journalist, worked for CBC for years and is no a professor of journalism, she was so fking gullible!
Clearly she had serious suspicions as an adult. But I guess mostly, if you're brought up with it from a very young age by people you are very close to (one a parent), then rather than the rational adult of approach of 'prove it's true', I guess she was coming from the position of 'this is [in her mind] fact, and now prove it's not true'.king gullible! There is also the intriguing possibility that Pauline is in fact the delusional one, and has fabricated the entire story around a few base facts.
So maybe Stan is real, the church group, her mother working there, them moving away, is all true and would all check out.
But all the fake threat stuff was in HER head and didn't really happen. After all, the story has come out after the main supposed protagonists have died, so how would anyone check, beyond establishing that these people did exist?
So maybe Stan is real, the church group, her mother working there, them moving away, is all true and would all check out.
But all the fake threat stuff was in HER head and didn't really happen. After all, the story has come out after the main supposed protagonists have died, so how would anyone check, beyond establishing that these people did exist?
poo at Paul's said:
Quite incredible that as an apparently serious journalist, worked for CBC for years and is no a professor of journalism, she was so fking gullible!
Reading the story, as soon as it said he was a church guy, and was following the mother, it was clear as day to me what is was all about. Many would say as a Church leader, he was a fantasist period, never mind all the other bks he was seemingly spouting.
Such people can only manipulate those that want to be or who are not quite in the real world themselves. When will she be getting the BBC gig! lol
Don't run away with the idea that the intelligent are immune to such things. If you look at crime reports of fraud, the victims are often professionals. After all, there's not much point in defrauding the poor. I felt superior to these idiots until I was conned out of £2 by the deputy chair of the local residents' association. He did the whole road although not everyone paid, that is if one believes what they say.king gullible! Reading the story, as soon as it said he was a church guy, and was following the mother, it was clear as day to me what is was all about. Many would say as a Church leader, he was a fantasist period, never mind all the other b
ks he was seemingly spouting. Such people can only manipulate those that want to be or who are not quite in the real world themselves. When will she be getting the BBC gig! lol
alorotom said:
Fascinating read, I dont think its as uncommon as many likely do ... I have come across quite a few fantasists and social media seems to be a breeding ground for it all
It just amazes me that the mother, Ruth, was so taken in by it
I’ve met a couple of people who live in their own dream world. Quite bizzare I could type for hours about one woman if I had the patience but she never convinced others of her bullsIt just amazes me that the mother, Ruth, was so taken in by it
t stories. because sometimes we were in the same fkng room when alledged happening happened.Anyway this is different convincing others.
Reminds me of these women who lose their life savings to some man who claims to be a secret agent.
Ari said:
There is also the intriguing possibility that Pauline is in fact the delusional one, and has fabricated the entire story around a few base facts.
While entirely possible, the photos featuring their pastor suggest otherwise. They show him engaging in questionable degree of familiarity with both the mother and daughter.Derek Smith said:
Don't run away with the idea that the intelligent are immune to such things. If you look at crime reports of fraud, the victims are often professionals.
I'm not saying she is unintelligent. I am saying it is incredible that as an apparently successful JOURNALIST, she was so gullible. It sort of goes with the territory, that if your a decent journalist, you tend to need to check stuff out and obtain realistic evidence about things.
Even the terminology that this guy was using to her and her mum was such b
ks, it was clearly a load of old pony. Now the Lizard people, that's a different matter, I believe all that 100%, but weird world.......do me a favour.
My mate (who is on here) was going out with a really nice girl personality and looks wise, they were buying a new gaff together but she spun him a yarn that she had thousands in the bank towards the deposit. Sadly the trurh emerged when they were close to buying that she had nothing.
He spoke to her parents who replied "oh no, not this again!". Clearly she'd done this before.
He spoke to her parents who replied "oh no, not this again!". Clearly she'd done this before.
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