Financial matters on a first date, accountancy matters
Discussion
When you are on your first date do you mainly worry about whether you might get a kiss and trying to not blow it completely or do you start worrying about leveraging each others bank balances to make sure the rating agencies do not mark you down? Guess what BBC ladies do? And BBC does not mean big black cock in this instance ( for once).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46164568
She is such a mad nutter I would not go near her with a credit card on a 50 foot long stick.
Having been married for 30 years and still having cuddles and snuggles I do fear for the poor lady and her bank, rather than never ending emotion balance, and I blame her mother.
"When I first began dating, my mother warned me that there was "no such thing as a free drink". She would elaborate gravely: "Men will think you owe them something."
A gin and tonic is £5. Compared to getting married, buying a house and paying children that is a drop in the ocean, not sure how your mum can still be worrying about that after bringing you up!
"These days finding a date is easier than ever, with apps and online communities for people of every conceivable orientation, identity, and background."
Or you just meet them at work or down the pub and say "Hello" and perhaps "should we have a drink?"
"But who should pay for the first date always sparks a spirited conversation"
Between who exactly? In all my 50 years and talking to countless ladies, who now are old enough to be your mother, this has never happened to me. Even with tight fisted Yorkshire people who think Geoff Boycott is the 2nd comming has this never happened.
"I used to embrace the logic that for women to be treated as equal to men, we should pay for our own share, and split the bill with our date. To make sure that's never a problem, I've always suggested affordable dating venues - cheap and cheerful restaurants, dive bars, gigs, parks."
Sounds good to me, I do the same, even though a man and wanting to just get a kiss to start that nice process of moving from being friends to be something more. But then....
"About five years ago my friends and teachers introduced me to ideas that made me question that approach. I became aware of feminist writers like Gloria Jean Watkins (known by her pen name bell hooks) who made me think about who benefits most from the current structure of society. She and others got me thinking about the way power functions at the every level, including small individual exchanges."
"People benefit differently based on the current structure of society, so depending on who we're spending time with, it shouldn't be expected for both parties to pay equal amounts. Women, on average, earn less than men. Canadian women, on average, earn C$0.69 for every dollar a man makes at work."
What about the kisses and the cuddles? Call me old fashioned.... Bloody Canadians once again getting in the way of romance.
"Expectations around women's appearances and behaviour have material and personal costs. Women's physical appearances are held to impossibly high standards and a routine subject of ridicule everywhere from the entertainment industry to The White House.We are expected to be calmer, more attentive, understanding, flexible, and accommodating than men in every area of our lives - in family, work, relationships, and friendships. Meeting these norms is costly - materially and emotionally"
Strangely although I first went out with my wife of 30 years more than 30 years ago I did not recall that being a factor on my first date. And times were more backward then. I just wanted the friendship we had over 4 years to progress to the next step.
Her comments then go into a twighlight zone which I cannot comment on due to having some natural tints in my hair
"If I sense that a man correlates his paying for a first date with me "owing" him in some way, I will insist on paying for both of us and shut down any chance of further communication. This kind of primitive thinking shows a lack of perspective, respect, and consent. I have dated both men and women, and funnily enough, anytime I've dated a woman, or gender-diverse person we've ended up competing to pay the bill."
"If we want to be good company and good partners, challenging power imbalances is an important part of every relationship. Who pays on a first date doesn't define the terms of the relationship."
Eh, so why are you rattling on about it?
The bit that really gets my goat is when she says -
"I've been with my partner, Zac, for over a year now. I had a good feeling about him when he told me he loved animals,"
Well I love animals and I have a mongrel dog and I take him on walks each day and I love him to bits.
He gets in the car to go to the dog walk. Do I charge him for the taxi fare to the dog walk? No. Because I love him.
I bought him a dog lead. Do I charge him for the dog lead? No, because I love him.
He sleeps in our house. Guess how much of the house bills he pays .... no clues ... because I love him.
Dog food. Do we go Dutch on that? I bet by now you can guess the answer is NO, we do not split the bill.
BECAUSE I LOVE HIM.
Sometimes long term relationships depend on love rather than pounds shillings and pence. Who would have thought it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkn1kFmUW5E
I look at him and just wish he could put a counter point to the BBC rather than that mad b
h from hell.
And his tongue is longer than hers, just sayin' Zac
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46164568
She is such a mad nutter I would not go near her with a credit card on a 50 foot long stick.
Having been married for 30 years and still having cuddles and snuggles I do fear for the poor lady and her bank, rather than never ending emotion balance, and I blame her mother.
"When I first began dating, my mother warned me that there was "no such thing as a free drink". She would elaborate gravely: "Men will think you owe them something."
A gin and tonic is £5. Compared to getting married, buying a house and paying children that is a drop in the ocean, not sure how your mum can still be worrying about that after bringing you up!
"These days finding a date is easier than ever, with apps and online communities for people of every conceivable orientation, identity, and background."
Or you just meet them at work or down the pub and say "Hello" and perhaps "should we have a drink?"
"But who should pay for the first date always sparks a spirited conversation"
Between who exactly? In all my 50 years and talking to countless ladies, who now are old enough to be your mother, this has never happened to me. Even with tight fisted Yorkshire people who think Geoff Boycott is the 2nd comming has this never happened.
"I used to embrace the logic that for women to be treated as equal to men, we should pay for our own share, and split the bill with our date. To make sure that's never a problem, I've always suggested affordable dating venues - cheap and cheerful restaurants, dive bars, gigs, parks."
Sounds good to me, I do the same, even though a man and wanting to just get a kiss to start that nice process of moving from being friends to be something more. But then....
"About five years ago my friends and teachers introduced me to ideas that made me question that approach. I became aware of feminist writers like Gloria Jean Watkins (known by her pen name bell hooks) who made me think about who benefits most from the current structure of society. She and others got me thinking about the way power functions at the every level, including small individual exchanges."
"People benefit differently based on the current structure of society, so depending on who we're spending time with, it shouldn't be expected for both parties to pay equal amounts. Women, on average, earn less than men. Canadian women, on average, earn C$0.69 for every dollar a man makes at work."
What about the kisses and the cuddles? Call me old fashioned.... Bloody Canadians once again getting in the way of romance.
"Expectations around women's appearances and behaviour have material and personal costs. Women's physical appearances are held to impossibly high standards and a routine subject of ridicule everywhere from the entertainment industry to The White House.We are expected to be calmer, more attentive, understanding, flexible, and accommodating than men in every area of our lives - in family, work, relationships, and friendships. Meeting these norms is costly - materially and emotionally"
Strangely although I first went out with my wife of 30 years more than 30 years ago I did not recall that being a factor on my first date. And times were more backward then. I just wanted the friendship we had over 4 years to progress to the next step.
Her comments then go into a twighlight zone which I cannot comment on due to having some natural tints in my hair
"If I sense that a man correlates his paying for a first date with me "owing" him in some way, I will insist on paying for both of us and shut down any chance of further communication. This kind of primitive thinking shows a lack of perspective, respect, and consent. I have dated both men and women, and funnily enough, anytime I've dated a woman, or gender-diverse person we've ended up competing to pay the bill."
"If we want to be good company and good partners, challenging power imbalances is an important part of every relationship. Who pays on a first date doesn't define the terms of the relationship."
Eh, so why are you rattling on about it?
The bit that really gets my goat is when she says -
"I've been with my partner, Zac, for over a year now. I had a good feeling about him when he told me he loved animals,"
Well I love animals and I have a mongrel dog and I take him on walks each day and I love him to bits.
He gets in the car to go to the dog walk. Do I charge him for the taxi fare to the dog walk? No. Because I love him.
I bought him a dog lead. Do I charge him for the dog lead? No, because I love him.
He sleeps in our house. Guess how much of the house bills he pays .... no clues ... because I love him.
Dog food. Do we go Dutch on that? I bet by now you can guess the answer is NO, we do not split the bill.
BECAUSE I LOVE HIM.
Sometimes long term relationships depend on love rather than pounds shillings and pence. Who would have thought it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkn1kFmUW5E
I look at him and just wish he could put a counter point to the BBC rather than that mad b
h from hell.And his tongue is longer than hers, just sayin' Zac
Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 24th November 20:02
On average women may be paid less than men, but this is dragged down by women in their fifties and sixties who didn't have anything like the same opportunities or ambition of today's young women. The average is also dragged down by the impact of career breaks after motherhood, which also doesn't effect young women on the dating scene.
If we actually look at young women, who the article is talking about, I have seen statistics that suggest they earn slightly MORE than men in the 20-30 age group, and others which slow them earning slightly less (but only by a few percent).
That said I always paid while dating, that was a while back and maybe societal expectations have changed, but I still think the man is being a bit cheap if he doesn't pay for the first date, maybe split things when you are properly dating.
If we actually look at young women, who the article is talking about, I have seen statistics that suggest they earn slightly MORE than men in the 20-30 age group, and others which slow them earning slightly less (but only by a few percent).
That said I always paid while dating, that was a while back and maybe societal expectations have changed, but I still think the man is being a bit cheap if he doesn't pay for the first date, maybe split things when you are properly dating.
Gandahar said:
Guess what BBC ladies do? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46164568
I'm amazed it's taken a whole day for this to get on PH.Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 24th November 20:02
Anyway, what does the "BBC ladies" comment mean? It's an opinion piece written by one person isn't it?
Normal Person said:
"This isn't to say that men don't work hard or should always pay - when I've been in situations where it is obvious that I have more income than the man I'm dating, I am happy to split or cover the bill.
It seems like a completely logical, uncontroversial piece, but, as ever, out come the INCELSJim the Sunderer said:
Not this pay gap crap again.
They've been hoodwinked into reading law, media studies, archaeology and the arts at ex-polys.
Their career advisor in school should have told them you need serious talent, credentials and nepotism to get your foot in the door.
Not sure why you included Law in that. 62% of new legal trainees are now female and it is a well paid profession. They've been hoodwinked into reading law, media studies, archaeology and the arts at ex-polys.
Their career advisor in school should have told them you need serious talent, credentials and nepotism to get your foot in the door.
BOR said:
Normal Person said:
"This isn't to say that men don't work hard or should always pay - when I've been in situations where it is obvious that I have more income than the man I'm dating, I am happy to split or cover the bill.
It seems like a completely logical, uncontroversial piece, but, as ever, out come the INCELSHer whole thing seems to be talking about inequality, feminism etc, but is actually pretty much "who is richer is generally the one that should pay". For me personally I will offer to pay, then offer again when they automatically say no. If they still insist I will not pay to respect their decision. But it's not really to do with old rules, but more I know I earn more than most so can afford it more.
BOR said:
It seems like a completely logical, uncontroversial piece, but, as ever, out come the INCELS
Surely equality means being equal?She presumably wants to be considered at least equal but equality doesn't extend as far as the bill.
I like the way you manage to pigeonhole everyone whose view is different to yours by using derogatory terms; don't play the ball, play the man.
Jasandjules said:
Dindoit said:
Troubleatmill said:
Jordon Peterson nailed it,
The incel’s guruBut I read that article as "I don't want to say I want the man to pay, but I do".....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
Edited by FN2TypeR on Sunday 25th November 14:41
I knew a job-seeking woman who was going out with a self-employed man, and she was put out that not only did he not once pick up the restaurant tab himself as a treat for her, always going fifty-fifty, he would ask for a VAT receipt for the whole thing and then claim it back through his company accounts so he ended up paying less than she did.
They didn't last long but that's because she was mental.
They didn't last long but that's because she was mental.
JagLover said:
Jim the Sunderer said:
Not this pay gap crap again.
They've been hoodwinked into reading law, media studies, archaeology and the arts at ex-polys.
Their career advisor in school should have told them you need serious talent, credentials and nepotism to get your foot in the door.
Not sure why you included Law in that. 62% of new legal trainees are now female and it is a well paid profession. They've been hoodwinked into reading law, media studies, archaeology and the arts at ex-polys.
Their career advisor in school should have told them you need serious talent, credentials and nepotism to get your foot in the door.
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