India & Pakistan
Discussion
Will be interesting to see what Pakistan do as any return action will only paint them in a bad light and will be admission that they either sanctioned the previous bombings, are happy sponsoring terrorism, had no idea there was a large terrorist training camp on their turf etc...
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/live-upd...
Arguably, they've done them a favour should they want to rid the country of terrorists...
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/live-upd...
Arguably, they've done them a favour should they want to rid the country of terrorists...
Did the air raid actually take place though?
India have form for lying when it comes to such things:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-377027...
As for Pakistan pretty much all of their neighbours - Iran, India, Afghanistan - accuse them of supporting terrorists. They can't all be wrong. They've also played a double game with the United States - accepting billions in US aid and then sponsoring militant groups that target coalition troops.
India have form for lying when it comes to such things:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-377027...
As for Pakistan pretty much all of their neighbours - Iran, India, Afghanistan - accuse them of supporting terrorists. They can't all be wrong. They've also played a double game with the United States - accepting billions in US aid and then sponsoring militant groups that target coalition troops.
Edited by BlackLabel on Tuesday 26th February 10:51
BlackLabel said:
Did the air raid actually take place though?
India have form for lying when it comes to such things:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-377027...
As for Pakistan pretty much all of their neighbours - Iran, India, Afghanistan - accuse them of supporting terrorists. They can't all be wrong. They've also played a double game with the United States - accepting billions in US aid and then sponsoring militant groups that target coalition troops.
As always with these things, there are 3 sides to every story.India have form for lying when it comes to such things:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-377027...
As for Pakistan pretty much all of their neighbours - Iran, India, Afghanistan - accuse them of supporting terrorists. They can't all be wrong. They've also played a double game with the United States - accepting billions in US aid and then sponsoring militant groups that target coalition troops.
The militant groups that Pakistan supports were funded mainly by the US and the Saudis until they had served their purpose. They were brave noble “Mujahideen” until Osama used them as a base for attacking the US. The US weren’t unwitting dupes in the “double game” – they were willing participants
IMO it would be completely accurate to say that Pakistan have used terrorists/asymmetrical warfare against Iran, Afghanistan, and India. However it’s a bit hypocritical for them to be accused of supporting terrorism when countries like the US (and arguably the UK) do pretty much the same thing.
With regards to the whole Kashmir thing – it’s not dissimilar to Northern Ireland, and any solution will take decades to achieve.
Countdown said:
BlackLabel said:
Did the air raid actually take place though?
India have form for lying when it comes to such things:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-377027...
As for Pakistan pretty much all of their neighbours - Iran, India, Afghanistan - accuse them of supporting terrorists. They can't all be wrong. They've also played a double game with the United States - accepting billions in US aid and then sponsoring militant groups that target coalition troops.
As always with these things, there are 3 sides to every story.India have form for lying when it comes to such things:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-377027...
As for Pakistan pretty much all of their neighbours - Iran, India, Afghanistan - accuse them of supporting terrorists. They can't all be wrong. They've also played a double game with the United States - accepting billions in US aid and then sponsoring militant groups that target coalition troops.
The militant groups that Pakistan supports were funded mainly by the US and the Saudis until they had served their purpose. They were brave noble “Mujahideen” until Osama used them as a base for attacking the US. The US weren’t unwitting dupes in the “double game” – they were willing participants
IMO it would be completely accurate to say that Pakistan have used terrorists/asymmetrical warfare against Iran, Afghanistan, and India. However it’s a bit hypocritical for them to be accused of supporting terrorism when countries like the US (and arguably the UK) do pretty much the same thing.
With regards to the whole Kashmir thing – it’s not dissimilar to Northern Ireland, and any solution will take decades to achieve.
It's legally part of Indian, but they've never been able to displace the Pakistani militants that occupied territory during the 'ditherings'. China has a dog in the fight as well.
Mothersruin said:
I hadn't realised that part of the accession process was to allow the Kashmiris to hold a referendum on which country they'd like to be in, them dithering in the first place led to the current situation - it never happened.
It's legally part of Indian, but they've never been able to displace the Pakistani militants that occupied territory during the 'ditherings'. China has a dog in the fight as well.
At one point I imagine Canada, Australia, and the US were legally all part of Great Britain. But things change over time. Regardless of that the majority population of Kashmir is muslim and if a referendum was held the outcome is obvious. But that would be unpalatable to the "largest democracy in the World".It's legally part of Indian, but they've never been able to displace the Pakistani militants that occupied territory during the 'ditherings'. China has a dog in the fight as well.
Countdown said:
Mothersruin said:
I hadn't realised that part of the accession process was to allow the Kashmiris to hold a referendum on which country they'd like to be in, them dithering in the first place led to the current situation - it never happened.
It's legally part of Indian, but they've never been able to displace the Pakistani militants that occupied territory during the 'ditherings'. China has a dog in the fight as well.
At one point I imagine Canada, Australia, and the US were legally all part of Great Britain. But things change over time. Regardless of that the majority population of Kashmir is muslim and if a referendum was held the outcome is obvious. But that would be unpalatable to the "largest democracy in the World".It's legally part of Indian, but they've never been able to displace the Pakistani militants that occupied territory during the 'ditherings'. China has a dog in the fight as well.
I visit Srinagar almost every year and have done since 1993, at the height of the current troubles.
There are (unreported in the west) troubles every year, multiple times. Air strikes across the border almost every year, the majority unreported in the west.
The line of control is and will continue to be disputed. The Chinese border is also disputed.
Every year there are curfews post violent protests - after Burhan (Hizbul Mujahideen) was killed by Indian troops in 2016 the valley was shut down for about two months. That means shut down, no shops open. He was so popular that a quarter of a million attended his funeral. I was there shortly after and the tension was palpable. I witnessed many running battles with the Indian security forces. 100+ people died.
I think Kashmir is becoming a pressure cooker again. Militancy and radicalisation are rearing their heads again, exacerbated in part by the Indian military’s horrendous human rights violations. I always feel that Kashmir is being left behind by India even though it will not let it become ‘Azad Kashmir’ as it is known the other side of the border. Kashmiri’s see how India is progressing, especially technologically, and rail against their oppression.
There have been three wars between India and Pakistan since independence in 1947, essentially over territory. It should not be forgotten that China lays claim to 20% or so of Kashmir, although mostly uninhabited, and administers it.
I do not expect any of this to cease anytime soon.
There are (unreported in the west) troubles every year, multiple times. Air strikes across the border almost every year, the majority unreported in the west.
The line of control is and will continue to be disputed. The Chinese border is also disputed.
Every year there are curfews post violent protests - after Burhan (Hizbul Mujahideen) was killed by Indian troops in 2016 the valley was shut down for about two months. That means shut down, no shops open. He was so popular that a quarter of a million attended his funeral. I was there shortly after and the tension was palpable. I witnessed many running battles with the Indian security forces. 100+ people died.
I think Kashmir is becoming a pressure cooker again. Militancy and radicalisation are rearing their heads again, exacerbated in part by the Indian military’s horrendous human rights violations. I always feel that Kashmir is being left behind by India even though it will not let it become ‘Azad Kashmir’ as it is known the other side of the border. Kashmiri’s see how India is progressing, especially technologically, and rail against their oppression.
There have been three wars between India and Pakistan since independence in 1947, essentially over territory. It should not be forgotten that China lays claim to 20% or so of Kashmir, although mostly uninhabited, and administers it.
I do not expect any of this to cease anytime soon.
India hits Militants which supposedly have nothing to do with Pakistan, and Pakistan retaliates by hitting Indian army targets 
. But Pakistan doesn't support terrorists
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634
. But Pakistan doesn't support terrorists https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634
JagLover said:
India hits Militants which supposedly have nothing to do with Pakistan, and Pakistan retaliates by hitting Indian army targets . But Pakistan doesn't support terrorists
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634
Firing over the LoC has been happening since time immemorial (well.... 1947), it's nothing new but has probably intensified due to everyhting else that's going on. . But Pakistan doesn't support terrorists https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634
I'm very surprised that the PAF managed to shoot anything down, given their fairly old equipment.
My great great grandfather is in Srinigar cemetery after being KIA in Kashmir. This area has been a conflict zone for 100s of years. The Indians and Pakistanis have been having at it for just as long. Its actually unusual for them not to be fighting. However, its more of a squabble than a fight. They don't mind losing a few men either side, its all just propaganda these days. It wont come to war, neither can afford it and neither actually want it. India is actually in a good place at the moment. The Pakistanis not so much as its a hot bed for AQ and their mates and they know what will happen if something bad happens elsewhere and the finger lands on them and the yanks come knocking. All IMHO.
Countdown said:
I'm very surprised that the PAF managed to shoot anything down, given their fairly old equipment.
They shot down a MiG 21 which is pretty ancient too. Don’t think either side has a particularly modern, state of the art military. However one thing India does have over Pakistan is economic superiority - the latter is close to bankruptcy and couldn’t afford a full-scale conflict. It would set the Indian economy back years too. Edited by BlackLabel on Wednesday 27th February 09:12
Flights from the west are turning 90 degrees south and heading towards Iran then over the Gulf of Oman and then turning east again to track over India to avoid Pakistan. Looks like some flights that are west east are also being put into a hold over Uzkbekistan I guess to do some sums on fuel and alternates etc?
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