What does the House of Commons actually do?
Discussion
All of this talk about shutting the house of commons has got me thinking, what does it actually do?
The intention with our general election system is to form a government you have to have a majority over the all the other parties combined. The theory being the party that formed the government doesn’t need to rely on other party mp votes to pass legislation.
Let’s roll with that thought for a moment, there is a general election, a party wins based on their manifesto, they then form a government and act out their manifesto.
Given that the public elected them based on the manifesto, what does the commons actually do?
The above is a massive simplification obviously, but I think there is a point to it.
The intention with our general election system is to form a government you have to have a majority over the all the other parties combined. The theory being the party that formed the government doesn’t need to rely on other party mp votes to pass legislation.
Let’s roll with that thought for a moment, there is a general election, a party wins based on their manifesto, they then form a government and act out their manifesto.
Given that the public elected them based on the manifesto, what does the commons actually do?
The above is a massive simplification obviously, but I think there is a point to it.
They scrutinize the legislation as it is proposed and offer amendments and discussion of the best ways to achieve the aims.
The various committees of the HOC are effective in reviewing the legislation and for enquirers into matters of public life.
Additionally it where the government is held to account by Parliament, on matters like finance, taxation and the management of Public Services
Megaflow said:
All of this talk about shutting the house of commons has got me thinking, what does it actually do?
The intention with our general election system is to form a government you have to have a majority over the all the other parties combined. The theory being the party that formed the government doesn’t need to rely on other party mp votes to pass legislation.
Let’s roll with that thought for a moment, there is a general election, a party wins based on their manifesto, they then form a government and act out their manifesto.
Given that the public elected them based on the manifesto, what does the commons actually do?
The above is a massive simplification obviously, but I think there is a point to it.
A strong opposition is important too. The intention with our general election system is to form a government you have to have a majority over the all the other parties combined. The theory being the party that formed the government doesn’t need to rely on other party mp votes to pass legislation.
Let’s roll with that thought for a moment, there is a general election, a party wins based on their manifesto, they then form a government and act out their manifesto.
Given that the public elected them based on the manifesto, what does the commons actually do?
The above is a massive simplification obviously, but I think there is a point to it.
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely gobsmacked that a UK citizen feels the need to ask such a question.
Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
Really? You are not surprised that somebody is questioning what value they offer given the ‘service’ we have had out of them in the last 3 years since the Brexit vote?Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
Megaflow said:
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely gobsmacked that a UK citizen feels the need to ask such a question.
Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
Really? You are not surprised that somebody is questioning what value they offer given the ‘service’ we have had out of them in the last 3 years since the Brexit vote?Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
It seemed to indicate a wholesale lack of knowledge of how the UK government actually works.
Eric Mc said:
Is that what the OP asked? It seemed to be a much more basic question.
It seemed to indicate a wholesale lack of knowledge of how the UK government actually works.
Beyond that we had a house of commons who made laws and a house of lords who said yes/no to them and a queen who said yes to them, I don't remember learning anything about what they all do.It seemed to indicate a wholesale lack of knowledge of how the UK government actually works.
I've probably learnt about what goes on as much in the last few days, when they suddenly went from 'lets have a few weeks recess for conferences, yay' to 'we're being proguged, evil monster' in the space of a few minutes. Which all seems bizarre seeing as they weren't overly upset about being on recess for the last few weeks. I'd be interested in knowing how much time the average MP spends in parliament (or their office in whitehall) , or their constituency office as well as teh max/min versions.
Eric Mc said:
Is that what the OP asked? It seemed to be a much more basic question.
It seemed to indicate a wholesale lack of knowledge of how the UK government actually works.
I am the OP, maybe it wasn’t worded well, but yes that was the intention. We elect a government based on a manifesto, the system works such that they should be able to act on that manifesto without the need of other parties, assuming a majority.It seemed to indicate a wholesale lack of knowledge of how the UK government actually works.
Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
Megaflow said:
I am the OP, maybe it wasn’t worded well, but yes that was the intention. We elect a government based on a manifesto, the system works such that they should be able to act on that manifesto without the need of other parties, assuming a majority.
Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
Why not read up on it and educate yourself rather than making yourself look thick?Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely gobsmacked that a UK citizen feels the need to ask such a question.
Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
I didn't and I went to a well regarded Grammar school.Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
Little or no practical lessons on how the country is run or financial matters, albeit this was in the 1960's.
However I was taught a lot about ancient Britons, Boudicca was greatly admired.
I'd be interested to know if things are different nowadays.
Megaflow said:
I am the OP, maybe it wasn’t worded well, but yes that was the intention. We elect a government based on a manifesto, the system works such that they should be able to act on that manifesto without the need of other parties, assuming a majority.
Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
It is often amended or revised either in the commons, or at committee or sent back by the Lords for amendment. It is one of the KEY reasons that most UK law is well drafted !Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
Without the Commons and Lords the prime minister, with his own appointed ministers to help them, could do what they wanted and pass whatever laws they want. It's the job of the opposition and back bench government MPs to ensure the laws proposed are for the benefit of the country as a whole.
Megaflow said:
I am the OP, maybe it wasn’t worded well, but yes that was the intention. We elect a government based on a manifesto, the system works such that they should be able to act on that manifesto without the need of other parties, assuming a majority.
Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
Democracy should be all about "checks and balances". In the UK (as in most democracies) part of this is exercised through the organ of open debate, discussion, co-operation with The House and public decision making. That is the fundamental reason why virtually ALL democracies have a forum (such as the House of Commons) where these discussions can be seen and heard by the electorate.Example, the government has a majority, the government produces a bill, all of the mp’s in the governing party vote in favour. It gets passed.
I appreciate that is both overly simplified and a rare event where even those in a single party agree, but that is how the system is designed to work.
Therefore what value does the House of Commons add?
The other fundamental of Western Democracy is that it is not a "winner takes all" form of administration. Those who "lost" the argument in an election are not completely ignored for the duration of the parliament that results from that election. The opposition is listened to and indeed, opposition from within the party of the victors is ALSO listened to (as the victors may not be unified on all areas of policy - even policies set out in the manifesto).
Manifestos are a rough guide to what a party wishes to achieve if it wins. What actually transpires in the course of their period in government may vary from what was in the manifesto for all sorts of reasons.
Badda said:
Why not read up on it and educate yourself rather than making yourself look thick?
He's asking about something he doesn't understand. While you may think this is something he should already know, that should not be labelled as the actions of the thick.Awareness of what you do not understand and a desire to understand is a good thing.
Agreed. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the question. What does surprise me often is how little British people understand how their country actually works. That is not because they are "thick". It's because they were never educated in the matter.
Lack of understanding of the organs of democracy is a very dangerous thing because, how can you fix a system if you don't know the mechanics as to how the system works? I wouldn't ask a mechanic to fix my car if he said to me that he hadn't a clue as to how a car works.
Lack of understanding of the organs of democracy is a very dangerous thing because, how can you fix a system if you don't know the mechanics as to how the system works? I wouldn't ask a mechanic to fix my car if he said to me that he hadn't a clue as to how a car works.
Eric Mc said:
Agreed. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the question. What does surprise me often is how little British people understand how their country actually works. That is not because they are "thick". It's because they were never educated in the matter.
Lack of understanding of the organs of democracy is a very dangerous thing because, how can you fix a system if you don't know the mechanics as to how the system works? I wouldn't ask a mechanic to fix my car if he said to me that he hadn't a clue as to how a car works.
Given it appears from the last few weeks maneuvering that it appears a lot of MPs don't understand what the Prime Minister can/can't should/shouldn't do (including past PMs), hence legal challenges, it shouldn't be a surprise that the average person in the street doesn't know. The lack of a written constitution is the cause of that: the fact is in the past its worked because, well it has. In fact you could argue it still is.Lack of understanding of the organs of democracy is a very dangerous thing because, how can you fix a system if you don't know the mechanics as to how the system works? I wouldn't ask a mechanic to fix my car if he said to me that he hadn't a clue as to how a car works.
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely gobsmacked that a UK citizen feels the need to ask such a question.
Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
Blame the, errr, government for the national curriculum and endless tests of what it considers important.Do kids in the UK not learn ANYTHING about how the country is run when in school? In Ireland, we had a course called "Civics" which provided a basic framework of how government and the state functioned.
Hole in 1.
mcdjl said:
Given it appears from the last few weeks maneuvering that it appears a lot of MPs don't understand what the Prime Minister can/can't should/shouldn't do (including past PMs), hence legal challenges, it shouldn't be a surprise that the average person in the street doesn't know. The lack of a written constitution is the cause of that: the fact is in the past its worked because, well it has. In fact you could argue it still is.
The existence of a written constitution in the US doesn't seem to be helping most folks understand what is and isn't legal there.Generally, modern laws seem to have got too complex for mere mortals and even QCs to understand.
Not sure what the answer is as more laws just make the lawyers richer.
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