Worcester Park fire
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49630...
Searched but didn't find a thread on this.
I started a thread a few years back asking whether wooden framed buildings were adequately fireproofed and it seems as though the answer is that they are, but only enough to let people get out.
Is it time that building regs were updated for large blocks of flats? Who would honestly want to live on the fourth floor of a timber framed block?!
Searched but didn't find a thread on this.
I started a thread a few years back asking whether wooden framed buildings were adequately fireproofed and it seems as though the answer is that they are, but only enough to let people get out.
Is it time that building regs were updated for large blocks of flats? Who would honestly want to live on the fourth floor of a timber framed block?!
"American style" - https://goo.gl/maps/4YduzTW8waSaDePT6
Not just wooden framed but wooden clad too. A tinderbox, surely that would need more than legal minimum required fire protection?
Not just wooden framed but wooden clad too. A tinderbox, surely that would need more than legal minimum required fire protection?
15 buildings on the estate that are, from tonight, having a waking watch - for how long I wonder?
Owned by metropolitan Thames valley
Thread linked here
https://twitter.com/luciemheath/status/11710008592...
Owned by metropolitan Thames valley
Thread linked here
https://twitter.com/luciemheath/status/11710008592...
Know several people in the area.
What's a concern to me, is that this is the 3rd major fire in the area this year. Are we dealing with an Arsonist?
In February a defunct pub was burnt out. Probably about 1/2 a mile away (1 on the map)
https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/17409463.worces...
And on Saturday a barbers had a fire about 1/2 a mile from last nights incident (albeit the other direction) (2 on the map)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/moment-massive-fire...
And Number 3 on the map is the flats
https://goo.gl/maps/6FQaBMQ15nxCoiqz8
What's a concern to me, is that this is the 3rd major fire in the area this year. Are we dealing with an Arsonist?
In February a defunct pub was burnt out. Probably about 1/2 a mile away (1 on the map)
https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/17409463.worces...
And on Saturday a barbers had a fire about 1/2 a mile from last nights incident (albeit the other direction) (2 on the map)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/moment-massive-fire...
And Number 3 on the map is the flats
https://goo.gl/maps/6FQaBMQ15nxCoiqz8
JPJPJP said:
15 buildings on the estate that are, from tonight, having a waking watch - for how long I wonder?
Owned by metropolitan Thames valley
Thread linked here
https://twitter.com/luciemheath/status/11710008592...
It's almost as though it's news that wooden framed buildings seem to burn quite easily.Owned by metropolitan Thames valley
Thread linked here
https://twitter.com/luciemheath/status/11710008592...
I've seen videos on YouTube of when wooden framed stuff in America goes up and it's spectacular, unless it's caught really, really fast then the fire department seem to only be able to work to save neighbouring houses. The one that catches fire always ends up as a wreck, and the same seems to go when it's apartment buildings that go up, they rarely contain the damage to one unit.
Blue Oval84 said:
It's almost as though it's news that wooden framed buildings seem to burn quite easily.
I've seen videos on YouTube of when wooden framed stuff in America goes up and it's spectacular, unless it's caught really, really fast then the fire department seem to only be able to work to save neighbouring houses. The one that catches fire always ends up as a wreck, and the same seems to go when it's apartment buildings that go up, they rarely contain the damage to one unit.
Often wondered why in Hollywood films the houses burn so easily or fall over in a strong wind. Now I know I've seen videos on YouTube of when wooden framed stuff in America goes up and it's spectacular, unless it's caught really, really fast then the fire department seem to only be able to work to save neighbouring houses. The one that catches fire always ends up as a wreck, and the same seems to go when it's apartment buildings that go up, they rarely contain the damage to one unit.
S1KRR said:
Know several people in the area.
What's a concern to me, is that this is the 3rd major fire in the area this year. Are we dealing with an Arsonist?
In February a defunct pub was burnt out. Probably about 1/2 a mile away (1 on the map)
https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/17409463.worces...
From that article:What's a concern to me, is that this is the 3rd major fire in the area this year. Are we dealing with an Arsonist?
In February a defunct pub was burnt out. Probably about 1/2 a mile away (1 on the map)
https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/17409463.worces...
“Splendid Hospitality Group has plans to develop the Worcester Park Tavern into a 132-bedroom hotel, which has been well-received by the local community.”
You'd never be able to prove that was the reason for the fire, but I live in the neighbouring borough and it sometimes appears that it might be helpful if fire stations were appraised when certain developers apply for planning permission.
In terms of this latest fire, it seems a bit of a miracle that everybody got out alive, and it's great news that is the case. Not do great for people living in the remaining blocks, especially if they ever want to sell.
Edited by kingston12 on Tuesday 10th September 14:23
skyrover said:
This is American style... not sure what that was supposed to be. Social housing is practically non existent in the USA.
That's what America wants us to think is American-style. I remember watching Hollywood movies as a child in the 80s thinking it was amazing that everyone seemed to live in 5 bed+ houses with huge gardens and swimming pools in impossibly-leafy private roads. The reality is a bit different and a lot of Americans live in gritty areas that you might see on The Wire or equivalent shows now. It's definitely fair to say a lot larger proportion live in good-sized detached houses than over here though.
You're right about social housing as well - just Wiki'd it and apparently there are only 1.2m families living in 'Housing Projects' in the US. Even assuming that is 3m people, it is less than 1% of the population.
Edited by kingston12 on Tuesday 10th September 14:24
kingston12 said:
The reality is a bit different and a lot of Americans live in gritty areas that you might see on The Wire or equivalent shows now. It's definitely fair to say a lot larger proportion live in good-sized detached houses than over here though.
One of the weird things about the US is the deadliest areas often look exactly the same as the OK ones. You won't really know until a javelin lands in your forehead. Wooden houses seem like a bit of a liability to me, you freeze and boil in them, but I guess that was the material to hand in most places.
Being of an age where I have seen new build flats move from structures built of concrete and bricks to the current pattern of wood, plastics and light metal all of which are either flammable or at least not very resistant to the spread of fire I am astonished that this has not become more of a scandal. I wouldn't live in a wood house more than 1 or two stories high- why should any one?
Grenfell Tower should have been a wake up call, but seems to have led to a preoccupation with claddings rather than a general review of shoddy and dangerous designs.
The irony is, both this and Grenfell, are the modern equivalent of Victorian Terraces. My own Victorian terrace, to comply with the London building standards prevalent in 1884, had to be completely separated from its neighbours by a'perfect party wall'- ie an unbroken wall extending a couple of feet above the roof to prevent fires spreading from house to house.
So, no progress at all. No one seems to care until a lot of people die, and then they just worry about an exact repetition of that event, rather than preventing the next.
Oh, and don't get me on to wood structures disguised with fake brickwork to deceive the unwary, like a block near me which was half burned down a few years back, luckily like the current one, top down so occupants could escape.
Grenfell Tower should have been a wake up call, but seems to have led to a preoccupation with claddings rather than a general review of shoddy and dangerous designs.
The irony is, both this and Grenfell, are the modern equivalent of Victorian Terraces. My own Victorian terrace, to comply with the London building standards prevalent in 1884, had to be completely separated from its neighbours by a'perfect party wall'- ie an unbroken wall extending a couple of feet above the roof to prevent fires spreading from house to house.
So, no progress at all. No one seems to care until a lot of people die, and then they just worry about an exact repetition of that event, rather than preventing the next.
Oh, and don't get me on to wood structures disguised with fake brickwork to deceive the unwary, like a block near me which was half burned down a few years back, luckily like the current one, top down so occupants could escape.
S1KRR said:
Know several people in the area.
What's a concern to me, is that this is the 3rd major fire in the area this year. Are we dealing with an Arsonist?
In February a defunct pub was burnt out. Probably about 1/2 a mile away (1 on the map)
https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/17409463.worces...
And on Saturday a barbers had a fire about 1/2 a mile from last nights incident (albeit the other direction) (2 on the map)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/moment-massive-fire...
And Number 3 on the map is the flats
https://goo.gl/maps/6FQaBMQ15nxCoiqz8
Live nearby and thought the same. 3 fires, all close together. Suspect!What's a concern to me, is that this is the 3rd major fire in the area this year. Are we dealing with an Arsonist?
In February a defunct pub was burnt out. Probably about 1/2 a mile away (1 on the map)
https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/17409463.worces...
And on Saturday a barbers had a fire about 1/2 a mile from last nights incident (albeit the other direction) (2 on the map)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/moment-massive-fire...
And Number 3 on the map is the flats
https://goo.gl/maps/6FQaBMQ15nxCoiqz8
kingston12 said:
You'd never be able to prove that was the reason for the fire, but I live in the neighbouring borough and it sometimes appears that it might be helpful if fire stations were appraised when certain developers apply for planning permission.
Oh don't worry, most of the locals suspect it was an insurance job.I was staying in my mother's flat in Green Lane on Sunday night (my sister and I were sorting stuff out now Mum is in a care home).
I didn't get much sleep that night! I read that 20 fire engines and 125 firefighters attended.
Very sad event for all the residents at the Hamptons. I wonder if timber cladding may get outlawed now?
Then later on Monday I drove past the hairdresser's shop at North Cheam - it looks like there may be a problem in that part of the world.
I didn't get much sleep that night! I read that 20 fire engines and 125 firefighters attended.
Very sad event for all the residents at the Hamptons. I wonder if timber cladding may get outlawed now?
Then later on Monday I drove past the hairdresser's shop at North Cheam - it looks like there may be a problem in that part of the world.
When it comes to timber-framed buildings, perhaps the design practices in the UK aren't as evolved as those in the US? I was looking at building a timber-frame garage and read a few US books and there's a lot of detail in relation to fire spread. If a small design flaw was repeated through the framing, or a lazy carpenter missed out key parts (that they didn't understand was important) then it could have a major impact on the spread.
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