Migration to England: why?

[Johnnytheboy]

(obviously occasioned by the awful story about the migrants found dead in the container, but I feel deserving of a separate thread)

I am posting this from a position of ignorance.

Why are people from other nations so desperate to migrate to England as opposed to other Western nations?

(I say England, as I suspect it is England rather than the rest of the UK they want to get to - but I am happy to be educated from my ignorance)

Given the additional geographical difficulties, why not Denmark/France/Italy/etc.? Why are we so much more desirable?

Our economy is not outperforming the rest of the developed world so it can't be that.

I (probably vainly) hope this won't turn into a racism-fest: if you want to answer with any variant on the idea that somehow the UK's legal/welfare system makes us a 'soft touch' please be precise in how.

My gut feeling is the English language plays a significant role in this.

As the ghastly say: 'talk to me'.

[Pothole]

Johnnytheboy said:

My gut feeling is the English language plays a significant role in this.

I caught a piece on the radio about this the other day) the "expert" was asked just this question and said migrants interviewed had cited that as a reason they didn't stop in other countries along the way.

[rover 623gsi]

because on pretty much any geographical, cultural, societal, economic and historical measure England (and the rest of the UK) is a great, peaceful, friendly, welcoming and vibrant place to live.

[untakenname]

One of the main reasons is that once they're in the UK it's very hard for them to be removed and we don't require ID cards like nearly every other country.
Plus we have a welfare and health system which doesn't require you to pay into it first so it's open for exploitation.

[pequod]

Having an 'international' language, English or any mangled form thereof, is a major factor IMO together with our tolerant society and lax ID checks.

Apart from those, the opportunity to earn significantly more than elsewhere in the world without too many checks on your right to employment.

[anonymous-user]

Family members already here and the language.

How many countries in the world speak Danish or Norwegian or German. If you learn English (which I suppose most of them have to some extent), then you have a huge number of options around the world. The UK is probably easier to get to via land and sea, and has more relaxed immigration laws than other English speaking countries such as the US, Canada, Australia etc.

[Sheets Tabuer]

untakenname said:

One of the main reasons is that once they're in the UK it's very hard for them to be removed and we don't require ID cards like nearly every other country.
Plus we have a welfare and health system which doesn't require you to pay into it first so it's open for exploitation.

Why would someone want to travel half way around the world to sit on 70 quid a week jobseekers?

[Pothole]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Why would someone want to travel half way around the world to sit on 70 quid a week jobseekers?

Nobody, but they won't get it anyway, or any other standard benefits unless they are refugees.

[PositronicRay]

In the recent case I did wonder why UK? France would seem an obvious choice, plenty of post colony links.

The French do seem to have a more highly regulated labour market.

[pequod]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Why would someone want to travel half way around the world to sit on 70 quid a week jobseekers?

Of course, they don't, or at least I would suggest most do not if they arrive illegally on their own to have a chance to 'make it' in the west. Some will be arriving to join their 'settled' family, no doubt, and will be playing the system.

[grumbledoak]

I think the healthcare system is a big draw. It is more open to abuse than most, if not all the others.

The language, a tolerant culture, and no mandatory Id will be bonuses.

[Liokault]

Sheets Tabuer said:

untakenname said:

One of the main reasons is that once they're in the UK it's very hard for them to be removed and we don't require ID cards like nearly every other country.
Plus we have a welfare and health system which doesn't require you to pay into it first so it's open for exploitation.

Why would someone want to travel half way around the world to sit on 70 quid a week jobseekers?

Because it’s not just £70 is it?

I have spent quite a lot of time in Vietnam this year for work. The line workers in our factory get what is a very good wage for the locals, they sought after positions, they still live in basically grass shacks in the country side. They can’t get access to an education for their kids that is above very basic, they don’t have access to very good health care, the can’t afford to live in the city.

They live in a society where if they get a tan they can’t expect a customer facing job (seriously the locals wear long sleeves and hats and judge each other by how dark they are). Let’s not even talk about what work you can/can’t do depending on who’s side your dad was no in the war.

Here they will get access to a thriving illegal job market, we will house them, send for their kids, give education and healthcare. Why wouldn’t they come?

[98elise]

The language
The good standard of living
The lack of enforcement against illegal immigration
The multicultural people
The opportunity to work illegally (even if exploited)

I doubt I would fair well living under the radar in China or Vietnam, but it's relatively easy the other way round.

[Cantaloupe]

rover 623gsi said:

because on pretty much any geographical, cultural, societal, economic and historical measure England (and the rest of the UK) is a great, peaceful, friendly, welcoming and vibrant place to live.

It's got to be more than that, France and Spain can beat the UK in everything , weather, culture, cuisine, history, architecture, friendly natives.

Could it be free housing, healthcare, benefits and the ability to travel freely in the UK ?
You know, I think it just might be.

[valiant]

English is pretty much a second language in most countries around the world plus we have established communities of most nationalities so the transition may not be so severe to new arrivals and I suppose there maybe historic reasons for some (empire and whatnot) where there’s been a historic presence and influence in their home country.

[wisbech]

There are also many immigrants in France, Italy and Germany. So they do also go to other countries.

Heck, a very large proportion of Italian designer clothes are made by Chinese migrant labour in Italy. They need to say ‘made in Italy’ on the clothes, so rather than the factories moving to China, the workers moved to Italy...

Large numbers of Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants in Singapore as well.

[wisbech]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

We can now. EU doesn’t stop us having ID cards or having checks on containers.

[StevieBee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not a chance! All that will happen is the price traffickers charge will increase.

In answer to the OP, it is indeed a language thing.

France receives a disproportionate amount of migration from north African states where French is the primary or secondary language.

Portugal has in the past been the target location for Brazilian migrants.

[Coolbanana]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You're kidding, right?

I'm happier living in the Algarve, Portugal than Blighty, which I never liked as a home, but would choose the USA (would be there if not for having met my wife literally weeks before moving there), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa or Canada before the UK. Even France or Spain. I have an apartment in Amsterdam - I'm here now actually for the weekend - and prefer it to any city in the UK.

If pushed to make a list, I'd find my birth country pretty far down it and it's not because I dislike it, I think it is a great place to visit, but at times hated living there.

Make no mistake, the UK isn't the absolute favourite destination for migrants, it is just easier for some. Plenty of migrants settle all over the World. Many, like me, use the UK to make some money and then move on to where we really want to live.

[pequod]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Maybe not for those recent arrivals from SE Asia but many Brits (and other western nationals) wish to live in other countries including the FE. It's all about opportunity to make, and live, a better and richer life, as we all try and do as humans.