Horrific rape trial

[tight fart]

Horrific rape trial reported on sky news, I saw the headline and assumed it was in the US but it’s east London Watford area.

https://news.sky.com/story/joseph-mccann-alleged-s...

[NDA]

Jesus..... words fail me.

It's hard to imagine such people exist.

The victims will never really recover from such an ordeal, it is life changing. Kind of obvious to say that, but we do sometimes forget that the victims will live for 60 or 70 years with the memory. It's sickening.

[Derek Smith]

I ran a fraction over 2.7 rape and serious sexual offences ID parades each week for two years. Most of the offenders had one trait in common; they are totally and utterly selfish.

I had to sit next to these people and be nice to them, asking all the required questions in a non-intimidatory way, all the time knowing that anyone with the least bit of dignity would kick the bloke until such time as he could not offend again. I often felt the need to wash after being in the same room as them.

Whilst these rapists are a small percentage, they exist everywhere.

Edited by Derek Smith on Wednesday 13th November 09:24

[anonymous-user]

i remember that british Fritzl, raped his daughter, then their child, and was moving onto their child. I'm sure there have been a few on them but not much press.
What amazes me how they can get away with it, in public.

This bloke must have a back story.

i was wondering how he had connections all over the country and different cars that seemed untraceable, it seems an early report from the year mentioned an 'irish' accent.

Edited by Thesprucegoose on Wednesday 13th November 09:27

[Baby Shark doo doo doo doo]

Horrifying. His victims will sadly never fully recover The physical damage will eventually heal, the psychological trauma stays forever.

[STe_rsv4]

Derek Smith said:

I ran a fraction over 2.7 rape and serious sexual offences ID parades each week for two years. Most of the offenders had one trait in common; they are totally and utterly selfish.

I had to sit next to these people and be nice to them, asking all the required questions in a non-intimidatory way, all the time knowing that anyone with the least bit of dignity would kick the bloke until such time as he could not offend again. I often felt the need to wash after being in the same room as them.

Whilst these rapists are a small percentage, they exist everywhere.

Edited by Derek Smith on Wednesday 13th November 09:24

You're a better bloke than I am. I'd struggle to stay calm in those situations

[andy_s]

Derek Smith said:

I ran a fraction over 2.7 rape and serious sexual offences ID parades for two years. Most of the offenders had one trait in common; they are totally and utterly selfish.

I had to sit next to these people and be nice to them, asking all the required questions in a non-intimidatory way, all the time knowing that anyone with the least bit of dignity would kick the bloke until such time as he could not offend again. I often felt the need to wash after being in the same room as them.

Whilst these rapists are a small percentage, they exist everywhere.

Professional compartmentalisation is difficult, keeping an eye on the reasons you're doing what you're doing helps I guess. I've been in similar situations while in the Bill, but watched some cracking and very clever interviewers recently with a breakdown of technique (a la Mindhunter) and psychology used. Fascinating stuff but ultimately yes, I bet they all get a good shower afterwards.

[budgie smuggler]

That is truly disgusting. Hope he never sees life outside of a prison again.

[XCP]

It's very important to stay professional so that you do not give the defence any ammunition whatsoever to help their client. The more important the case, the more important this becomes. it is doing the best for the victim that you can do.

[Digga]

XCP said:

It's very important to stay professional so that you do not give the defence any ammunition whatsoever to help their client. The more important the case, the more important this becomes. it is doing the best for the victim that you can do.

^This. Ensuring a clean and fair trial is the best way of getting these vermin locked up.

Then, hopefully, potentially, some nutter inside with not too much to lose will do exactly what you really wanted to do and worse.

[JuniorD]

That's a monster. Can only be cured with 7.5g of lead introduced to the head at 1200ft/s

[kev1974]

Thought this Primark security guard was pretty horrific as well

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/kingston-pri...

[Humble Pi]

JuniorD said:

That's a monster. Can only be cured with 7.5g of lead introduced to the head at 1200ft/s

This.

[Derek Smith]

Digga said:

XCP said:

It's very important to stay professional so that you do not give the defence any ammunition whatsoever to help their client. The more important the case, the more important this becomes. it is doing the best for the victim that you can do.

^This. Ensuring a clean and fair trial is the best way of getting these vermin locked up.

Then, hopefully, potentially, some nutter inside with not too much to lose will do exactly what you really wanted to do and worse.

My problem was that, at the time, defence could demand ID parades even if there was overwhelming forensic evidence, such as DNA and other stuff. So the only reason for the parade was in the hope I would muck it up and they'd get the bloke off on a technical, and irrelevant, point. Make a mistake, and I could let down the victim, as well as the team. Image the weight of that.

I wanted to limit the pressure on victims and witnesses as much as I could so asked a few, post trial, what was the worst thing about them. The universal reply was that the parade made the victims especially, and the witnesses as well, relive the trauma of the incident.

An 18-year-old victim who was raped, then buggered and then forced into oral sex, all the time believing that she would be killed. She collapsed on the parade. I had put her through the agony of the series of sexual offences, all because the defence thought the woman will think it not worth the effort to proceed. The offender was vile. The brief was vile. Considering what I put the woman through, what did that make me?

The offender had a string of sexual offences to his name. He got 7 years, less the time on remand. He was out in a bit under 3 and a half. It took him about a week to start offending again, this time with indecent assaults. He was arrested, charged, found guilty and was back out again after a bit over 2 years. On release, the division mounted a surveillance. It was very expensive. In fact, it could not be run now. He was convicted again and sentenced again, this time for an indefinite period, probably out now, so back offending.

The volunteers I used were, in the main, intelligent and on the ball. They knew the local news and being called in for an emergency parade made them realise it was for a rapist. In the post-identification mixing in the parade room, one volunteer, one with precons for GBH, told the bloke that if he ever saw him in Brighton, he'd kill him. His response would have removed a person who had no right to be out in public. My views on the matter were not mixed.

We can't protect women and girls from people we know are going to assault and rape them. If society's systems fails, is there any requirement for us to follow its rules?

The one I was involved in. Note the date. https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/6766594.phone-led-...

Then, less than 10 years later, after serving a sentence for the rapes and sexual assaults, being released, committing further sexual offences, serving time, being released, he comes out to: https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9550311.police-yar... Again, notice the date.

We waste money on imprisoning offenders who are no threat to society. We should clear space for those who should be given lengthy sentences and then be able to prove that they will no longer offend before being released.

18 years old and subjected to a series of horrific sexual offences is bad enough, Then having to live through it again, in the presence of strangers and the person who offended, at the demand of the offender; that's obscene. At the trial, the defence objected to the victim giving evidence from behind a screen.

[s1962a]

kev1974 said:

Thought this Primark security guard was pretty horrific as well

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/kingston-pri...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/convicted-ra...

And this. Monsters.

[Dakkon]

It is when you read articles like this you really question what the system is doing?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-p...

[Pastor Of Muppets]

budgie smuggler said:

That is truly disgusting. Hope he never sees life outside of a prison again.

Absolutely agree with that. Rapists and sexual abusers are just beyond the pale, a heinous act that requires
the most severe sentencing in my opinion. This type of scum should be isolated from society for a very long
time.

[Digga]

Derek Smith said:

I wanted to limit the pressure on victims and witnesses as much as I could so asked a few, post trial, what was the worst thing about them. The universal reply was that the parade made the victims especially, and the witnesses as well, relive the trauma of the incident.

An 18-year-old victim who was raped, then buggered and then forced into oral sex, all the time believing that she would be killed. She collapsed on the parade. I had put her through the agony of the series of sexual offences, all because the defence thought the woman will think it not worth the effort to proceed. The offender was vile. The brief was vile. Considering what I put the woman through, what did that make me?...

18 years old and subjected to a series of horrific sexual offences is bad enough, Then having to live through it again, in the presence of strangers and the person who offended, at the demand of the offender; that's obscene. At the trial, the defence objected to the victim giving evidence from behind a screen.

Despicable. I hope the system these days is more sympathetic to the victims.

As for joke sentencing and 'out in half the term' recidivism, the only way that can be cured it first to build a lot more prison places, sadly. I know from friends currently in the force, how utterly demotivating it is to see offenders back out, doing the same again, to yet more victims.

[andymc]

Derek Smith said:

Digga said:

XCP said:

It's very important to stay professional so that you do not give the defence any ammunition whatsoever to help their client. The more important the case, the more important this becomes. it is doing the best for the victim that you can do.

^This. Ensuring a clean and fair trial is the best way of getting these vermin locked up.

Then, hopefully, potentially, some nutter inside with not too much to lose will do exactly what you really wanted to do and worse.

My problem was that, at the time, defence could demand ID parades even if there was overwhelming forensic evidence, such as DNA and other stuff. So the only reason for the parade was in the hope I would muck it up and they'd get the bloke off on a technical, and irrelevant, point. Make a mistake, and I could let down the victim, as well as the team. Image the weight of that.

I wanted to limit the pressure on victims and witnesses as much as I could so asked a few, post trial, what was the worst thing about them. The universal reply was that the parade made the victims especially, and the witnesses as well, relive the trauma of the incident.

An 18-year-old victim who was raped, then buggered and then forced into oral sex, all the time believing that she would be killed. She collapsed on the parade. I had put her through the agony of the series of sexual offences, all because the defence thought the woman will think it not worth the effort to proceed. The offender was vile. The brief was vile. Considering what I put the woman through, what did that make me?

The offender had a string of sexual offences to his name. He got 7 years, less the time on remand. He was out in a bit under 3 and a half. It took him about a week to start offending again, this time with indecent assaults. He was arrested, charged, found guilty and was back out again after a bit over 2 years. On release, the division mounted a surveillance. It was very expensive. In fact, it could not be run now. He was convicted again and sentenced again, this time for an indefinite period, probably out now, so back offending.

The volunteers I used were, in the main, intelligent and on the ball. They knew the local news and being called in for an emergency parade made them realise it was for a rapist. In the post-identification mixing in the parade room, one volunteer, one with precons for GBH, told the bloke that if he ever saw him in Brighton, he'd kill him. His response would have removed a person who had no right to be out in public. My views on the matter were not mixed.

We can't protect women and girls from people we know are going to assault and rape them. If society's systems fails, is there any requirement for us to follow its rules?

The one I was involved in. Note the date. https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/6766594.phone-led-...

Then, less than 10 years later, after serving a sentence for the rapes and sexual assaults, being released, committing further sexual offences, serving time, being released, he comes out to: https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9550311.police-yar... Again, notice the date.

We waste money on imprisoning offenders who are no threat to society. We should clear space for those who should be given lengthy sentences and then be able to prove that they will no longer offend before being released.

18 years old and subjected to a series of horrific sexual offences is bad enough, Then having to live through it again, in the presence of strangers and the person who offended, at the demand of the offender; that's obscene. At the trial, the defence objected to the victim giving evidence from behind a screen.

Do they all reoffend?

[Derek Smith]

andymc said:

Do they all reoffend?

They get a taste for it.

The offence of rape is often not sexual, weird though that sounds. It is more to do with abuse and exercising power. Offenders, like the one on the links, are often failures in just about every aspect of their lives - jobs, making friends, achievements, relationships. They start with more minor offences, like indecent assault. Then they start the spiral downwards.

Once they've had their moment of feeling superior, even if it took the threat of a knife and being overpowered, they want more.