The Conservatives borrow more than Labour does
Discussion
According to Richard Murphy in an article here Tax Research UK
The comments section below the article gets heated and personal - not unlike NP&E! It seems to be contrary to even what Liam Byrne believes, and certainly surprising - if true. Where's PFI in his figures I wonder?
The comments section below the article gets heated and personal - not unlike NP&E! It seems to be contrary to even what Liam Byrne believes, and certainly surprising - if true. Where's PFI in his figures I wonder?
motco said:
According to Richard Murphy in an article here Tax Research UK
The comments section below the article gets heated and personal - not unlike NP&E! It seems to be contrary to even what Liam Byrne believes, and certainly surprising - if true. Where's PFI in his figures I wonder?
There does not seem to be a graph of year on year figures which is strange It would be interesting to see whether recent figures are different to older ones. You also have to wonder why 70 years was chosen as the time period. The comments section below the article gets heated and personal - not unlike NP&E! It seems to be contrary to even what Liam Byrne believes, and certainly surprising - if true. Where's PFI in his figures I wonder?
It is wilfully misleading "analysis" by a left-leaning campaigner.
It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
ralphrj said:
It is wilfully misleading "analysis" by a left-leaning campaigner.
It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
Does that include de Pfeffel's government, after all they did follow on from a tory government.......It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
ralphrj said:
It is wilfully misleading "analysis" by a left-leaning campaigner.
It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
Well certainly that has been the case for the two most recent ones.It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
2010 coming into office with a government deficit of 10% of GDP
1979 coming into office after years of stagflation and with massive structural problems in the economy.
By contrast when Labour were elected in 1997 they inherited an economy performing extremely well and government finances heading into surplus. Add in a commitment to stick to Tory spending plans for a couple of years and they did OK on the deficit for a while.
Just goes to show that the only meaningful indicator is the full impact on the deficit of government policies over the life of that spending. A pension promise for example might be a commitment for sixty years. A PFI contract a commitment for twenty five.
ralphrj said:
It is wilfully misleading "analysis" by a left-leaning campaigner.
It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
Exactly. To use an analogy, if someone moved into a house which was left in good order by the previous occupants, they could initially just start living in it, using every day expenses. with the slight possibility of saving enough to do some upgrades. It ignores a very important fact - every single Labour Government has been voted out of office when the wheels fall off the economy, unemployment is rising and public spending is starting to rocket.
Labour Governments never stick around to clear up the mess they create.
Every single Conservative Government of the past 70 years has had to start from a terrible position inherited from a Labour Government.
If however they move into a house that was completely trashed by the previous occupants , the new occupants must not only find their every day expenses, but at the same time also find from somewhere, a lot of extra cash needed to bring the house back to a livable condition.
When labour last took power they were handed a cash surplus by the leaving occupants of No:10 , when labour last walked out they left a note saying that all the money (to run the country) was gone.
Labour always, always ruin the UK`s economy every single time they get into No10.
The next party in, must then spend years, and billions, repairing the damage done to the UK`s economy by labour, to even get back to square one. Never, ever vote labour.
Exactly, public borrowing just before the tories got the keys was staggering and rising at a ridiculous rate, it's almost like they knew they were up s
ts creek and did as much damage as they could before they left.
The turnaround was actually quite impressive if you ask me, which is why big spending by the tories this GE campaign doesn't sit quite right with me.
ts creek and did as much damage as they could before they left. The turnaround was actually quite impressive if you ask me, which is why big spending by the tories this GE campaign doesn't sit quite right with me.
dazwalsh said:
Exactly, public borrowing just before the tories got the keys was staggering and rising at a ridiculous rate, it's almost like they knew they were up sts creek and did as much damage as they could before they left.
The turnaround was actually quite impressive if you ask me, which is why big spending by the tories this GE campaign doesn't sit quite right with me.
Go on any forum and it's Tory austerity this and that. Last time I checked public spending was rising, and tax take was at record levels. Anyone who thinks that voting labour in is going to transport us back to 2004 is dreaming. It's more than that's it wilfully misleading. I heard a union rep public sector say that he was looking forward to a lab government so that the 'spending taps could be turned back on' . It's not even arguing from a position of ideology it's factually impossible. ts creek and did as much damage as they could before they left. The turnaround was actually quite impressive if you ask me, which is why big spending by the tories this GE campaign doesn't sit quite right with me.
motco said:
According to Richard Murphy in an article here Tax Research UK
The comments section below the article gets heated and personal - not unlike NP&E! It seems to be contrary to even what Liam Byrne believes, and certainly surprising - if true. Where's PFI in his figures I wonder?
The cognitive dissonance will fly thick and fast in this thread... But this has been the case for many years now as conservative governments world wide are mismanaging economies and conservative voters who don't like having their views questioned need to reconcile the data with their beliefs. I've already read a few silly arguments how it can't possibly be the conservatives fault.The comments section below the article gets heated and personal - not unlike NP&E! It seems to be contrary to even what Liam Byrne believes, and certainly surprising - if true. Where's PFI in his figures I wonder?
The cause for this is two fold. Firstly the conservative parties in many western nations have lurched so far to the right that they're unable to sensibly manage an economy. For an economy to be well managed, governments must be pragmatic, conservative parties are no longer pragmatic, they are driven by ideology and sometimes a government needs to accept that a policy that is best for the country is a policy that doesn't fit their ideology... The more extreme the ideology, the fewer sensible policies fit it.
The second reason is, former conservative governments got their economic "credentials" by selling off a whole load of public assets, using the cash raised to fund their terms in government. The problem with this is, you've reduced non-taxation based income sources for the government. Some of them did need to be privatised, others did not but that's besides my point, once that one time windfall from the privatisation of public assets is gone, you need to replace that income and you can only do that by borrowing or taxing... so conservatives borrow until they get voted out and the other party needs to step in and fix the income stream and the debt.
I know that many of you will be unable to face the fact that the conservatives are now worse at managing the economy but the figures don't lie and it's not just the UK, but also the US, Canada and Australia where this is true.
captain_cynic said:
The cognitive dissonance will fly thick and fast in this thread... But this has been the case for many years now as conservative governments world wide are mismanaging economies and conservative voters who don't like having their views questioned need to reconcile the data with their beliefs. I've already read a few silly arguments how it can't possibly be the conservatives fault.
There's only cognitive dissonance if you don't understand how massively flawed the analysis is (and why he repeated the same nonsense time and time again, to appeal to the hard of thinking who don't bother to understand why it is so flawed.captain_cynic said:
The cause for this is two fold. Firstly the conservative parties in many western nations have lurched so far to the right that they're unable to sensibly manage an economy. For an economy to be well managed, governments must be pragmatic, conservative parties are no longer pragmatic, they are driven by ideology and sometimes a government needs to accept that a policy that is best for the country is a policy that doesn't fit their ideology... The more extreme the ideology, the fewer sensible policies fit it.
Can you give some examples of this massive lurch to the right? (Clue, Brexit isn't one of them). captain_cynic said:
The second reason is, former conservative governments got their economic "credentials" by selling off a whole load of public assets, using the cash raised to fund their terms in government. The problem with this is, you've reduced non-taxation based income sources for the government. Some of them did need to be privatised, others did not but that's besides my point, once that one time windfall from the privatisation of public assets is gone, you need to replace that income and you can only do that by borrowing or taxing... so conservatives borrow until they get voted out and the other party needs to step in and fix the income stream and the debt.
I know that many of you will be unable to face the fact that the conservatives are now worse at managing the economy but the figures don't lie and it's not just the UK, but also the US, Canada and Australia where this is true.
You haven't given any 'facts', just some claims that don't stand up to basic scrutiny.I know that many of you will be unable to face the fact that the conservatives are now worse at managing the economy but the figures don't lie and it's not just the UK, but also the US, Canada and Australia where this is true.
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