50,000 extra nurses.
Discussion
One of the claims made in the election was that there would be 50,000 extra nurses in the NHS. 19,000 of them were not "new" but those who would not be retiring and staying on.
I'm one of the potential 19000 - I'm able to take retirement at 55 with a pension. Over the last few years I've been looking forward to this, and it's now only 18 months away. What can the government do to entice me to stay?
SD.
I'm one of the potential 19000 - I'm able to take retirement at 55 with a pension. Over the last few years I've been looking forward to this, and it's now only 18 months away. What can the government do to entice me to stay?
SD.
shed driver said:
One of the claims made in the election was that there would be 50,000 extra nurses in the NHS. 19,000 of them were not "new" but those who would not be retiring and staying on.
I'm one of the potential 19000 - I'm able to take retirement at 55 with a pension. Over the last few years I've been looking forward to this, and it's now only 18 months away. What can the government do to entice me to stay?
SD.
probably nothing given your age but there will be many younger models 'ripe' for incentives I would thinkI'm one of the potential 19000 - I'm able to take retirement at 55 with a pension. Over the last few years I've been looking forward to this, and it's now only 18 months away. What can the government do to entice me to stay?
SD.
For one thing, stop paying agency nurses so much and they could pay permanent staff more and might entice some of the agency nurses to go back to full time. My partners a band 6 nurse and works in the NHS, if she moved to one of the local agencies and did bank she could double her pay overnight! I didn't believe her when she told me but after looking into it I was pretty shocked. At the moment, I'm struggling to see any reasons for her to stay working for the NHS and not moving over to an agency.
My younger daughter is a qualified midwife. She enjoyed the job but was required to work long, unsociable hours. When she had her first child, the job had to go. She now has a clerical job outside the NHS that is 9-5, although for around a third of the time she works from home. Her take-home pay is greater than she got for a supervisor's role as a midwife. All this without nights and requirements to stay on to cover for lack of midwives.
These incentives have got to be pretty good.
The 50,000 nurses is a myth of course, in the same way the extra <n>000 extra police is.
Part of the problem with nurse/midwife recruitment was the nonsensical termination of bursaries. Everyone said it would mean a drop in recruitment, and that probably includes the dolt who brought it in. With that removed, recruitment will increase. But 50,000? Never. Certainly not in this government's life.
These incentives have got to be pretty good.
The 50,000 nurses is a myth of course, in the same way the extra <n>000 extra police is.
Part of the problem with nurse/midwife recruitment was the nonsensical termination of bursaries. Everyone said it would mean a drop in recruitment, and that probably includes the dolt who brought it in. With that removed, recruitment will increase. But 50,000? Never. Certainly not in this government's life.
Derek Smith said:
She now has a clerical job outside the NHS that is 9-5, although for around a third of the time she works from home. Her take-home pay is greater than she got for a supervisor's role as a midwife. All this without nights and requirements to stay on to cover for lack of midwives.
9-5 Clerical work for more than between £33k and £42k of a senior midwife?I'm doing the wrong job.
jackofall84 said:
For one thing, stop paying agency nurses so much and they could pay permanent staff more and might entice some of the agency nurses to go back to full time. My partners a band 6 nurse and works in the NHS, if she moved to one of the local agencies and did bank she could double her pay overnight! I didn't believe her when she told me but after looking into it I was pretty shocked. At the moment, I'm struggling to see any reasons for her to stay working for the NHS and not moving over to an agency.
Band 6 is circa £35k isn't it ?Are you suggesting she increases her hours by doing bank work as well or that agencies are paying nurses £70k p.a. ?
Sambucket said:
Why not just pay nurses a higher salary, across the board. That would attract and retain from all angles.
I don't think nurses pay is the big issue it once was. I'm not suggesting they are living it up on mega salaries but I think the pay is OK. A friend is a quite senior nurse, late 50s, also lectures for the NHS at conferences etc, and she's on around £60K. I think it's the levels of moral and working conditions, more than the salary, that's the issue. But the 50K is a lie of course, it's 31K, and that won't happen either.
Uggers said:
Derek Smith said:
She now has a clerical job outside the NHS that is 9-5, although for around a third of the time she works from home. Her take-home pay is greater than she got for a supervisor's role as a midwife. All this without nights and requirements to stay on to cover for lack of midwives.
9-5 Clerical work for more than between £33k and £42k of a senior midwife?I'm doing the wrong job.
She is paid considerably more than almost all nurses.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't think nurses pay is the big issue it once was. I'm not suggesting they are living it up on mega salaries but I think the pay is OK. A friend is a quite senior nurse, late 50s, also lectures for the NHS at conferences etc, and she's on around £60K. I think it's the levels of moral and working conditions, more than the salary, that's the issue.
But the 50K is a lie of course, it's 31K, and that won't happen either.
If the salary is not an issue, then why the exodus to agencies? Are nurses forced to work long hours with no flexible / part time options?But the 50K is a lie of course, it's 31K, and that won't happen either.
In my field, offering flexibility is as good as raise in many cases, for retention.
Uggers said:
Derek Smith said:
She now has a clerical job outside the NHS that is 9-5, although for around a third of the time she works from home. Her take-home pay is greater than she got for a supervisor's role as a midwife. All this without nights and requirements to stay on to cover for lack of midwives.
9-5 Clerical work for more than between £33k and £42k of a senior midwife?I'm doing the wrong job.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 20th December 12:09
shed driver said:
What can the government do to entice me to stay?
SD.
Probably not for you as you'll have a nice pension waiting for you, but there's the obvious of more pay, incentivise the nurses again by better working conditions, shorter hours, more staff, but thats a long term goal if it means pushing more people through training. You can't just throw agency staff or recruit from overseas to resolve the issue, you need to make nursing an attractive occupation again.SD.
13.1% of staff are currently not british, 9.5% of doctors and 6.4% of nurses are EU nationals, so Brexit didn't help, a 30% fall in other nationalities since 2016.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBr...
Whats the view of the pledge? I thought (regardless of political persuasion) increasing retention would be a good thing? A retained nurse is more valuable than a new recruit right? I genuinely saw the pledge as "if we did nothing the numbers are x, our plan is you'll have x+50,000" I totally get if we have y at the moment in 5 years that doesn't mean we have y+50,000, that would be a different pledge.
Sheepshanks said:
An odd thing about the NHS is supervisors often aren't paid more, so he base salary might not be as high as stated. But if she was doing s
ts then she'd have been paid more for nights and weekends so I agree, that must be a heck of a clerical job.
I think you may be surprised at what some clerical jobs pay in the NHS.ts then she'd have been paid more for nights and weekends so I agree, that must be a heck of a clerical job.I know what some of those jobs pay ( especially at senior level). It is eye- opening.
Info is freely available online.
Sambucket said:
If the salary is not an issue, then why the exodus to agencies? Are nurses forced to work long hours with no flexible / part time options?
In my field, offering flexibility is as good as raise in many cases, for retention.
Lack of flexibility, blame culture, lack of skilled people, disorganisation, politics.In my field, offering flexibility is as good as raise in many cases, for retention.
Overall an unpleasant place to work, at least agency doesn’t involve politics at most of the blame culture.
I thought the issue with recruiting nurses was that they require them to have a degree now? Surely the primary skill is being excellent at caring for sick people, patience, being good at explaining things to them and their families etc.
Note I'm not saying I don't think they need to be clever to be a nurse, quite the opposite, the amount of stuff they have to know is vast.
All I have to go on is that I know a couple of people that work as carers in care homes and so on, who are clever and very good at looking after people, but don't go into better paid nursing because they can't or aren't interested in going to university.
Note I'm not saying I don't think they need to be clever to be a nurse, quite the opposite, the amount of stuff they have to know is vast.
All I have to go on is that I know a couple of people that work as carers in care homes and so on, who are clever and very good at looking after people, but don't go into better paid nursing because they can't or aren't interested in going to university.
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