Electoral reform
Discussion
Boris Johnson has indicated that he will implement the Boundary Commission's report on resizing constituencies to remove huge discrepancies in the number of voters in them, also reducing the number of constituencies from 650 to 600. That will likely be to the disadvantage of Labour - is that a good enough reason to not do it ? (I think not).
He is also advocating mandatory voter ID at polling stations, with free ID documents to be issued to those who have neither passport nor photo driving licence. Again, that seems reasonable to me - what are the arguments against ?
Other electoral reforms I would like to see would include removal of any possibility of students being able to vote in two constituencies and a requirement that if any MP changes their party allegiance, a by-election must be called.
I would not welcome any move towards electronic voting unless some way can be found of ensuring that the person at the keyboard is not being influenced by someone over their shoulder.
Thoughts ?
He is also advocating mandatory voter ID at polling stations, with free ID documents to be issued to those who have neither passport nor photo driving licence. Again, that seems reasonable to me - what are the arguments against ?
Other electoral reforms I would like to see would include removal of any possibility of students being able to vote in two constituencies and a requirement that if any MP changes their party allegiance, a by-election must be called.
I would not welcome any move towards electronic voting unless some way can be found of ensuring that the person at the keyboard is not being influenced by someone over their shoulder.
Thoughts ?
I think everyone should have an ID card (controversial)
ID should be shown and ID proven before you can vote (controversial)
There are too many MP’s and we could do just as well with far fewer
Perhaps also as devolution continues then the number of representatives sent by the devolved areas to the UK Parliament should be reduced as they already elect representatives ( MP’s in other names) to their national parliaments which is a large layer of duplication, and the National Parliaments can provide the representation to Westminster
ID should be shown and ID proven before you can vote (controversial)
There are too many MP’s and we could do just as well with far fewer
Perhaps also as devolution continues then the number of representatives sent by the devolved areas to the UK Parliament should be reduced as they already elect representatives ( MP’s in other names) to their national parliaments which is a large layer of duplication, and the National Parliaments can provide the representation to Westminster
The implementation of the boundary commision's findings are long overdue. The fact is, as it stands, it gives the Labour Party a significant advantage over others,the details are gone into in depth below.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/categor...
The fact is, it's irrelevant whoever the boundaries give advantage to, the boundaries should represenr a fair playing field to all , simple as.
It is similar for voting fraud, it's irrelevant who perpetrates it (except when in front of a judge) it needs stamping out, full stop.
For me, personally, the boundary review could work against me, I'm in Peterborough constituency , and the proposed changes almost certainly change it from a long time marginal (currently conservative) to a faily safe Labour seat.
Thats how it is though, nothing less than a fair playing field should be tolerated.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/categor...
The fact is, it's irrelevant whoever the boundaries give advantage to, the boundaries should represenr a fair playing field to all , simple as.
It is similar for voting fraud, it's irrelevant who perpetrates it (except when in front of a judge) it needs stamping out, full stop.
For me, personally, the boundary review could work against me, I'm in Peterborough constituency , and the proposed changes almost certainly change it from a long time marginal (currently conservative) to a faily safe Labour seat.
Thats how it is though, nothing less than a fair playing field should be tolerated.
Electoral Reform- my suggestions
1) Boundary Changes. The current parliamentary constituency boundaries are very much in favour of the Labour Party, for example Welsh (large Labour stronghold) voters are better represented by a significant margin (1MP for every 56000 voters compared to England's 1 MP for every 72200 voters).
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/constituencies/
England 533 Constituencies Average Electorate 72,200 voters
Wales: 40 Constituencies Average Electorate 56,000 voters
Scotland: 59 Constituencies Average Electorate 67,200 voters
Northern Ireland: 18 Constituencies Average Electorate 68,300 voters
The Boundary Commission have already prepared possible changes - blocked by the LDs when in Coalition and May didn't have the necessary parliamentary arithmetic in 2018/9.
https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Final-recommendations-report.pdf
My suggestion is that ALL constituencies should be exactly the same size. Limit the number of constituencies to a nice round 600, giving an average sized constituency an electorate of about 76,500 voters.
2) Limit, by statute, the voting rights of MPs in respect of devolved powers.If English MPs can't vote in respect of (say) Scottish Education then this should be reciprocated.
3) Although referendums are a vital part of changes to the constitution of the United Kingdom, those held in recent years have been divisive. I believe we should have specific constitutional laws to stop politicians using referendums for political reasons.
Therefore we should have a law restricting politicians (of the ruling party) to only holding referendums on matters that their political party has made a specific General Election manifesto commitment to hold.
The 2011 Alternative Vote referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 (or indeed LD's) manifesto.
The 2014 Scottish Independence referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 manifesto.
Therefore they should not have been held.
IMHO the only (recent) referendum with any true legitimacy was the 2016 EU referendum.
The reason for this is that it actually formed part General Election Manifesto of the political party that actually won power.
In 2015, the country gave the Conservative party the mandate to hold a referendum on EU membership.
Last week we did not give anyone a mandate to hold another referendum on Scottish independence.
So a change in the law will end calls for the breakup of the United Kingdom - unless, of course. the SNP can win 301+ seats in the new Parliament!
4) The Fixed Term Parliament act arose as a result of the 2010 coalition. There was no referendum in respect of what is a matter of constitutional importance. Therefore it should be revoked.
1) Boundary Changes. The current parliamentary constituency boundaries are very much in favour of the Labour Party, for example Welsh (large Labour stronghold) voters are better represented by a significant margin (1MP for every 56000 voters compared to England's 1 MP for every 72200 voters).
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/constituencies/
England 533 Constituencies Average Electorate 72,200 voters
Wales: 40 Constituencies Average Electorate 56,000 voters
Scotland: 59 Constituencies Average Electorate 67,200 voters
Northern Ireland: 18 Constituencies Average Electorate 68,300 voters
The Boundary Commission have already prepared possible changes - blocked by the LDs when in Coalition and May didn't have the necessary parliamentary arithmetic in 2018/9.
https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Final-recommendations-report.pdf
My suggestion is that ALL constituencies should be exactly the same size. Limit the number of constituencies to a nice round 600, giving an average sized constituency an electorate of about 76,500 voters.
2) Limit, by statute, the voting rights of MPs in respect of devolved powers.If English MPs can't vote in respect of (say) Scottish Education then this should be reciprocated.
3) Although referendums are a vital part of changes to the constitution of the United Kingdom, those held in recent years have been divisive. I believe we should have specific constitutional laws to stop politicians using referendums for political reasons.
Therefore we should have a law restricting politicians (of the ruling party) to only holding referendums on matters that their political party has made a specific General Election manifesto commitment to hold.
The 2011 Alternative Vote referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 (or indeed LD's) manifesto.
The 2014 Scottish Independence referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 manifesto.
Therefore they should not have been held.
IMHO the only (recent) referendum with any true legitimacy was the 2016 EU referendum.
The reason for this is that it actually formed part General Election Manifesto of the political party that actually won power.
In 2015, the country gave the Conservative party the mandate to hold a referendum on EU membership.
Last week we did not give anyone a mandate to hold another referendum on Scottish independence.
So a change in the law will end calls for the breakup of the United Kingdom - unless, of course. the SNP can win 301+ seats in the new Parliament!
4) The Fixed Term Parliament act arose as a result of the 2010 coalition. There was no referendum in respect of what is a matter of constitutional importance. Therefore it should be revoked.
vonuber said:
Scrap fptp. Until that is done we are just tinkering with a system that prevents any meaningful change.
But replace it with what ? We have just recently seen the chaos caused by minority governments, and before that the ineffectiveness of coalitions, either of which seem to be the most likely outcome of alternatives to fptp.Lily the Pink said:
But replace it with what ? We have just recently seen the chaos caused by minority governments, and before that the ineffectiveness of coalitions, either of which seem to be the most likely outcome of alternatives to fptp.
You mean the fact that compromise and working together for the common good seem to be an alien notion to politicians?vonuber said:
Lily the Pink said:
But replace it with what ? We have just recently seen the chaos caused by minority governments, and before that the ineffectiveness of coalitions, either of which seem to be the most likely outcome of alternatives to fptp.
You mean the fact that compromise and working together for the common good seem to be an alien notion to politicians?But again - replace it with what ?
Lily the Pink said:
vonuber said:
Scrap fptp. Until that is done we are just tinkering with a system that prevents any meaningful change.
But replace it with what ? We have just recently seen the chaos caused by minority governments, and before that the ineffectiveness of coalitions, either of which seem to be the most likely outcome of alternatives to fptp.I'm a bit meh about the boundary changes. I'm not sure why people say they disadvantage the Tories - this year they got 43% of the vote and 56% of the seats. The SNP also got significantly more seats than their share of the popular vote. Labour's number of seats was broadly in line with their share of the vote. Boundary changes just seems like gerrymandering to bake in an advantage for the Tories.
tuscan_raider said:
snuffy said:
tuscan_raider said:
Mandatory voting?
What good would that do ?When you have more than 2 options, it's highly likely that the winning side will get under 50% of the total. Everyone knows that you don't need to get 50% or more, you only need to get more than everyone else, but that does not stop the losing side making out it means the result means the winning side did not win.
Also, even if you force people to vote, why would that mean the winning side would get 50% or more ?
alfaspecial said:
Electoral Reform- my suggestions
1) Boundary Changes. The current parliamentary constituency boundaries are very much in favour of the Labour Party, for example Welsh (large Labour stronghold) voters are better represented by a significant margin (1MP for every 56000 voters compared to England's 1 MP for every 72200 voters).
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/constituencies/
England 533 Constituencies Average Electorate 72,200 voters
Wales: 40 Constituencies Average Electorate 56,000 voters
Scotland: 59 Constituencies Average Electorate 67,200 voters
Northern Ireland: 18 Constituencies Average Electorate 68,300 voters
The Boundary Commission have already prepared possible changes - blocked by the LDs when in Coalition and May didn't have the necessary parliamentary arithmetic in 2018/9.
https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Final-recommendations-report.pdf
My suggestion is that ALL constituencies should be exactly the same size. Limit the number of constituencies to a nice round 600, giving an average sized constituency an electorate of about 76,500 voters.
2) Limit, by statute, the voting rights of MPs in respect of devolved powers.If English MPs can't vote in respect of (say) Scottish Education then this should be reciprocated.
3) Although referendums are a vital part of changes to the constitution of the United Kingdom, those held in recent years have been divisive. I believe we should have specific constitutional laws to stop politicians using referendums for political reasons.
Therefore we should have a law restricting politicians (of the ruling party) to only holding referendums on matters that their political party has made a specific General Election manifesto commitment to hold.
The 2011 Alternative Vote referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 (or indeed LD's) manifesto.
The 2014 Scottish Independence referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 manifesto.
Therefore they should not have been held.
IMHO the only (recent) referendum with any true legitimacy was the 2016 EU referendum.
The reason for this is that it actually formed part General Election Manifesto of the political party that actually won power.
In 2015, the country gave the Conservative party the mandate to hold a referendum on EU membership.
Last week we did not give anyone a mandate to hold another referendum on Scottish independence.
So a change in the law will end calls for the breakup of the United Kingdom - unless, of course. the SNP can win 301+ seats in the new Parliament!
4) The Fixed Term Parliament act arose as a result of the 2010 coalition. There was no referendum in respect of what is a matter of constitutional importance. Therefore it should be revoked.
Agree with all of your suggestions. I would also add the provision of ID cards being mandatory when voting and tightening the postal vote legislation and policing thereof.1) Boundary Changes. The current parliamentary constituency boundaries are very much in favour of the Labour Party, for example Welsh (large Labour stronghold) voters are better represented by a significant margin (1MP for every 56000 voters compared to England's 1 MP for every 72200 voters).
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/constituencies/
England 533 Constituencies Average Electorate 72,200 voters
Wales: 40 Constituencies Average Electorate 56,000 voters
Scotland: 59 Constituencies Average Electorate 67,200 voters
Northern Ireland: 18 Constituencies Average Electorate 68,300 voters
The Boundary Commission have already prepared possible changes - blocked by the LDs when in Coalition and May didn't have the necessary parliamentary arithmetic in 2018/9.
https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Final-recommendations-report.pdf
My suggestion is that ALL constituencies should be exactly the same size. Limit the number of constituencies to a nice round 600, giving an average sized constituency an electorate of about 76,500 voters.
2) Limit, by statute, the voting rights of MPs in respect of devolved powers.If English MPs can't vote in respect of (say) Scottish Education then this should be reciprocated.
3) Although referendums are a vital part of changes to the constitution of the United Kingdom, those held in recent years have been divisive. I believe we should have specific constitutional laws to stop politicians using referendums for political reasons.
Therefore we should have a law restricting politicians (of the ruling party) to only holding referendums on matters that their political party has made a specific General Election manifesto commitment to hold.
The 2011 Alternative Vote referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 (or indeed LD's) manifesto.
The 2014 Scottish Independence referendum was not part of the Conservative's 2010 manifesto.
Therefore they should not have been held.
IMHO the only (recent) referendum with any true legitimacy was the 2016 EU referendum.
The reason for this is that it actually formed part General Election Manifesto of the political party that actually won power.
In 2015, the country gave the Conservative party the mandate to hold a referendum on EU membership.
Last week we did not give anyone a mandate to hold another referendum on Scottish independence.
So a change in the law will end calls for the breakup of the United Kingdom - unless, of course. the SNP can win 301+ seats in the new Parliament!
4) The Fixed Term Parliament act arose as a result of the 2010 coalition. There was no referendum in respect of what is a matter of constitutional importance. Therefore it should be revoked.
Lily the Pink said:
Boris Johnson has indicated that he will implement the Boundary Commission's report on resizing constituencies to remove huge discrepancies in the number of voters in them, also reducing the number of constituencies from 650 to 600. That will likely be to the disadvantage of Labour - is that a good enough reason to not do it ? (I think not).
He is also advocating mandatory voter ID at polling stations, with free ID documents to be issued to those who have neither passport nor photo driving licence. Again, that seems reasonable to me - what are the arguments against ?
Other electoral reforms I would like to see would include removal of any possibility of students being able to vote in two constituencies and a requirement that if any MP changes their party allegiance, a by-election must be called.
I would not welcome any move towards electronic voting unless some way can be found of ensuring that the person at the keyboard is not being influenced by someone over their shoulder.
Thoughts ?
My 2 pence worth:He is also advocating mandatory voter ID at polling stations, with free ID documents to be issued to those who have neither passport nor photo driving licence. Again, that seems reasonable to me - what are the arguments against ?
Other electoral reforms I would like to see would include removal of any possibility of students being able to vote in two constituencies and a requirement that if any MP changes their party allegiance, a by-election must be called.
I would not welcome any move towards electronic voting unless some way can be found of ensuring that the person at the keyboard is not being influenced by someone over their shoulder.
Thoughts ?
Boundary Commission's recommendations: Seems only fair that constituencies should be of similar size.
Fewer MPs: Excellent. It will save money, and (hopefully) only the better candidates will be put forward.
Voter ID: Seems reasonable, and will cut down on fraud. Also, restrict postal voting to those who are infirm or out of the country. It's far too open to fraud, and if people can't be bothered to vote in person then they don't get to vote.
Double voting: Make this a criminal offence punishable by a mandatory prison sentence IMO.
Change of party allegiance: Yes, this should trigger an automatic by-Election IMO.
Edited to add: We had a referendum which would have replaced the FPTP system with Alternative Voting in 2011. 68% voted against. Also, Proportional Representation will lead to a hung parliament. We saw how well this worked prior to the last election. Nothing gets done.
Edited by Mort7 on Friday 20th December 18:12
Mort7 said:
My 2 pence worth:
Boundary Commission's recommendations: Seems only fair that constituencies should be of similar size.
Fewer MPs: Excellent. It will save money, and (hopefully) only the better candidates will be put forward.
Voter ID: Seems reasonable, and will cut down on fraud. Also, restrict postal voting to those who are infirm or out of the country. It's far too open to fraud, and if people can't be bothered to vote in person then they don't get to vote.
Double voting: Make this a criminal offence punishable by a mandatory prison sentence IMO.
Change of party allegiance: Yes, this should trigger an automatic by-Election IMO.
Good post.Boundary Commission's recommendations: Seems only fair that constituencies should be of similar size.
Fewer MPs: Excellent. It will save money, and (hopefully) only the better candidates will be put forward.
Voter ID: Seems reasonable, and will cut down on fraud. Also, restrict postal voting to those who are infirm or out of the country. It's far too open to fraud, and if people can't be bothered to vote in person then they don't get to vote.
Double voting: Make this a criminal offence punishable by a mandatory prison sentence IMO.
Change of party allegiance: Yes, this should trigger an automatic by-Election IMO.
Earthdweller said:
There are too many MP’s and we could do just as well with far fewer
Perhaps also as devolution continues then the number of representatives sent by the devolved areas to the UK Parliament should be reduced as they already elect representatives ( MP’s in other names) to their national parliaments
Or we could just disband the regional talking shops. Would anyone really miss Holyrood ffs?Perhaps also as devolution continues then the number of representatives sent by the devolved areas to the UK Parliament should be reduced as they already elect representatives ( MP’s in other names) to their national parliaments
Lentilist said:
Mandatory voting doesn't mean you have to vote for one of the candidates, but it does mean you have to engage with the process.
But it would mean the complete opposite of that. Making someone vote (or selecting "none of the above" for example) when they do not want to will just alienate said person even more so they will resent the process more than they did to start with. It would engage them, it would disengage them,Also, MPs can abstain when then vote in the HOC (which of course happens all the time), so why can't voters at an election ? Or should all MPs be forced to vote ?
Countdown said:
Coalitions force compromise, that's not a "bad thing" in my opinion.
I'm a bit meh about the boundary changes. I'm not sure why people say they disadvantage the Tories - this year they got 43% of the vote and 56% of the seats. The SNP also got significantly more seats than their share of the popular vote. Labour's number of seats was broadly in line with their share of the vote. Boundary changes just seems like gerrymandering to bake in an advantage for the Tories.
The boundary reviews don't aim to get to a situation where percent of the vote = percent of the seats. The aim to get the number of people in a constituency roughly equal, so we all have equal representation and they aim to maintain boundaries that are coherent economically and socially so that communities with the same interests are represented by the same person. I'm a bit meh about the boundary changes. I'm not sure why people say they disadvantage the Tories - this year they got 43% of the vote and 56% of the seats. The SNP also got significantly more seats than their share of the popular vote. Labour's number of seats was broadly in line with their share of the vote. Boundary changes just seems like gerrymandering to bake in an advantage for the Tories.
You get discrepancies in the vote share/seat share because those that vote for particular parties have different levels of concentration. Without going through all the nuances, you would broadly expect that the Conservaties would have more seats from fewer votes because the sorts of people that vote Labour is highly correlated with the sort of people that live in Cities. Ironically a lot of that vote concentration is a result of Blairs educational and economic policies that have driven young people into cities for education and then to work; Blair created millions of Labour voters, but made them all live in the same places where the influence a relatively small number of constituencies.
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