Discussion
I’m no economist so excuse my ignorance. I can appreciate the effects on inflation and understand one or two countries have tried in vain but.. why can governments not simply print money to cure all our ills ? Eg
High speed rail 30- 150 billion , no problem let’s have two . Lots of job creation , lots of tax generated , lots of economic activity.
University education is a huge number on the balance sheet , but get the old money printing machine going = free education for all , probably a more equal and cultured society ,
Healthcare and social care solved at a stroke ,
What would be the drawbacks? And would they be outweighed by the benefits
High speed rail 30- 150 billion , no problem let’s have two . Lots of job creation , lots of tax generated , lots of economic activity.
University education is a huge number on the balance sheet , but get the old money printing machine going = free education for all , probably a more equal and cultured society ,
Healthcare and social care solved at a stroke ,
What would be the drawbacks? And would they be outweighed by the benefits
abzmike said:
In short, printing money decreases the value, so causes inflation. That is in normal times, but recently many governments have been doing it so all decreasing value at the same time reducing t he net effect. Still not an easy fix for anything though.
Pretty easy fix for anyone having savings of any worth.Gaz413823 said:
I’m no economist so excuse my ignorance. I can appreciate the effects on inflation and understand one or two countries have tried in vain but.. why can governments not simply print money to cure all our ills ? Eg
High speed rail 30- 150 billion , no problem let’s have two . Lots of job creation , lots of tax generated , lots of economic activity.
University education is a huge number on the balance sheet , but get the old money printing machine going = free education for all , probably a more equal and cultured society ,
Healthcare and social care solved at a stroke ,
What would be the drawbacks? And would they be outweighed by the benefits
If it was just being printed without limit then would you be happy to accept it in exchange for delivering a service?High speed rail 30- 150 billion , no problem let’s have two . Lots of job creation , lots of tax generated , lots of economic activity.
University education is a huge number on the balance sheet , but get the old money printing machine going = free education for all , probably a more equal and cultured society ,
Healthcare and social care solved at a stroke ,
What would be the drawbacks? And would they be outweighed by the benefits
Gaz413823 said:
I’m no economist so excuse my ignorance. I can appreciate the effects on inflation and understand one or two countries have tried in vain but.. why can governments not simply print money to cure all our ills ? Eg
High speed rail 30- 150 billion , no problem let’s have two . Lots of job creation , lots of tax generated , lots of economic activity.
University education is a huge number on the balance sheet , but get the old money printing machine going = free education for all , probably a more equal and cultured society ,
Healthcare and social care solved at a stroke ,
What would be the drawbacks? And would they be outweighed by the benefits
Assuming this is a serious post.High speed rail 30- 150 billion , no problem let’s have two . Lots of job creation , lots of tax generated , lots of economic activity.
University education is a huge number on the balance sheet , but get the old money printing machine going = free education for all , probably a more equal and cultured society ,
Healthcare and social care solved at a stroke ,
What would be the drawbacks? And would they be outweighed by the benefits
Countries can use any currency they want.
Let's say - you set up a new country in your bathroom.
We can call it Gazland.
You decide to have a new currency - and you can print all the money you want on your inkjet printer.
But what does the rest of the world value it as?
If you have lots of gold in your basement to back your currency - and a stonking track record of paying your debts... all the better.
Your currency may be taken seriously.
But - if you decide on a new kitchen - and think " I'll just order a few reams of paper from Staples and print s
t loads of Gaznotes" - the world will think in Dragon's Den style "I'm Out!" - because you cannot put your gold where your mouth is.Geddit?
Gaz413823 said:
Also , can you limit what you spend the “limitless” supply on , so infrastructure, education and healthcare maybe defence could be world class
Why would any architect or teacher or doctor accept your mickey mouse bits of paper in return for work? They won't be able to exchange them for food because no-one will swap.Gaz413823 said:
I do get that, but if (big if) full employment was created , healthcare was improved , education etc all massively improved, would it really matter? Would we have any need to compete in a global economy ? Would life be improved for a great many people?
How do you suppose that any of that would be achieved by printing more banknotes?@troubleatmill. Yeah it’s a serious post. Let’s refine the question . UK plc - not gazland , a reasonably wealthy country in the grand scheme of things , generally spend a bit more than we raise but our debt to earnings are comparable to other leading economies , credit rating decent , recessions come and go etc .
What if the government suddenly decides that we we have a world beating education system , better than anything Eton can do , and to pay for it , no tax raises but we print money, nothing else changes ,what would be so bad compared to every kid from the poorest most deprived areas of the country having opportunity? I’m glossing over the practicalities of magicing up all the extra teachers for now .
What if the government suddenly decides that we we have a world beating education system , better than anything Eton can do , and to pay for it , no tax raises but we print money, nothing else changes ,what would be so bad compared to every kid from the poorest most deprived areas of the country having opportunity? I’m glossing over the practicalities of magicing up all the extra teachers for now .
Gaz413823 said:
I do get that, but if (big if) full employment was created , healthcare was improved , education etc all massively improved, would it really matter? Would we have any need to compete in a global economy ? Would life be improved for a great many people?
Where is all the extra value coming from? Money is just a means of exchanging our time/value with each other. If you shovel more money into the economy there has been no extra value created so you just reduce the value of the currency.The problem is you are thinking of money having some actual value. Money has no value. It's just a means of exchanging goods and services without having to barter.
Sticking tonnes of money into a system can be a short term fix, so long as there's a plan to get it out again. Like quantitative easing. Sooo...
A German tourist walks into a Greek hotel and asks if they have a room for the night. The delighted owner says "Yes, it's €100. Payable upfront" The German tourist asks what if he doesn't like the room and the hotel owner says if that's the case, he can have a refund. The tourist hands over the money. `
The hotel owner points the tourist in the direction of the room and then runs out of the hotel to the garage next door, hands over the money and begs the owner to give him his van back following a repair, so he can get supplies to run his hotel. The garage owner agrees, takes the €100 and runs round to the insurance broker. "Here's the money for my liability insurance, can i have the certificate now so I can start trading again. The broker agrees, takes the money, runs round to the local hooker and gives her the €100. "Her's the money I owe you, can we start shagging again now?" She takes the cash, agrees, and runs over to the hotel. "Here's the €100 I owe oyu for use of your hotel room, can I start using the hotel again so I can book my clients. The hotel owner takes the money, just as the German tourist walks up to reception to ask for his refund as the room is no good. The hotel owner hands back the €100.
So, simplistically speaking, an outsider injected cash into a financial system, got the whole economy working and moving again, then took it back out, everyone benefited from it's short term appearance and no one lost out.
A German tourist walks into a Greek hotel and asks if they have a room for the night. The delighted owner says "Yes, it's €100. Payable upfront" The German tourist asks what if he doesn't like the room and the hotel owner says if that's the case, he can have a refund. The tourist hands over the money. `
The hotel owner points the tourist in the direction of the room and then runs out of the hotel to the garage next door, hands over the money and begs the owner to give him his van back following a repair, so he can get supplies to run his hotel. The garage owner agrees, takes the €100 and runs round to the insurance broker. "Here's the money for my liability insurance, can i have the certificate now so I can start trading again. The broker agrees, takes the money, runs round to the local hooker and gives her the €100. "Her's the money I owe you, can we start shagging again now?" She takes the cash, agrees, and runs over to the hotel. "Here's the €100 I owe oyu for use of your hotel room, can I start using the hotel again so I can book my clients. The hotel owner takes the money, just as the German tourist walks up to reception to ask for his refund as the room is no good. The hotel owner hands back the €100.
So, simplistically speaking, an outsider injected cash into a financial system, got the whole economy working and moving again, then took it back out, everyone benefited from it's short term appearance and no one lost out.
Gaz413823 said:
@troubleatmill. Yeah it’s a serious post. Let’s refine the question . UK plc - not gazland , a reasonably wealthy country in the grand scheme of things , generally spend a bit more than we raise but our debt to earnings are comparable to other leading economies , credit rating decent , recessions come and go etc .
What if the government suddenly decides that we we have a world beating education system , better than anything Eton can do , and to pay for it , no tax raises but we print money, nothing else changes ,what would be so bad compared to every kid from the poorest most deprived areas of the country having opportunity? I’m glossing over the practicalities of magicing up all the extra teachers for now .
The problem is simple, You print a load of money and hurl it at (say) the education system. Your intentions are good, but loads of it is wasted. In 10 years time, you might just have an uptick in productivity. However, right after you print it, you devalue your money. A barrel of oil is still USD 35, but you now need £300 to pay for it, not £50. A litre of petrol is (right now) £8. Oh dear, your economy is fWhat if the government suddenly decides that we we have a world beating education system , better than anything Eton can do , and to pay for it , no tax raises but we print money, nothing else changes ,what would be so bad compared to every kid from the poorest most deprived areas of the country having opportunity? I’m glossing over the practicalities of magicing up all the extra teachers for now .
ked. OK, print more money. A litre of petrol is now £80. Eventually, as always happens, people buy a loaf of bread using a wheelbarrow full of your worthless currency.
Fiat money is a confidence game. People taking your paper need to be convinced that it is a decent store of value. As soon as they stop thinking this, it is worthless.
Gaz413823 said:
Would the value be that we are happier ? Or life would be easier ?
Stop being abstract, you haven't grasped the basics. Imagine there is no money, you are hungry and you have no food. I've got lots of food. What would you give me for some?It is going to have to be something of value to me, or I'm not giving you anything.
That is what we mean by "value".
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