Policing by consent
Discussion
How do us british public view this term "policing by consent" ?
Regarding the lockdown, the media at the moment seem to think that this consent is on an individual level whereby they are portraying some police to be too zealous with the lockdown rules and with claims of the UK becoming a "police state".
This "consent" term as I see it, is not on the individual level, it is on a society level fed to us from a representative government level, which the media seem to be completely omitting for the sake of headlines.
Regarding the lockdown, the media at the moment seem to think that this consent is on an individual level whereby they are portraying some police to be too zealous with the lockdown rules and with claims of the UK becoming a "police state".
This "consent" term as I see it, is not on the individual level, it is on a society level fed to us from a representative government level, which the media seem to be completely omitting for the sake of headlines.
It is because by consent as the Police can barely handle a normal day.
Obviously they can cope with an individual but they struggle with 100 ? rioters
Personally I've supported arming them but when I see the ridiculous actions of Derbyshire, dying a pool black, I worry that they have pencil sharpeners, if that is the level of their intelligence.
Obviously they can cope with an individual but they struggle with 100 ? rioters
Personally I've supported arming them but when I see the ridiculous actions of Derbyshire, dying a pool black, I worry that they have pencil sharpeners, if that is the level of their intelligence.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's the 'Blue Lagoon' at the disused Harpur Hill Quarry, which goes an enticing pale topaz blue due to all the quicklime leaching into the water. Which gives it a nice tropical appearance but gives the water an a pH value not far off domestic bleach. So the pool has on multiple occasions in the past had black or purple dye put into it to make it less appealing and emphasise the danger. This is not a one-off pandemic-related thing or really an overreaction.
Edit: Someone got there before me while I was typing that!
I think it's pretty clear. The police will only enjoy consent all the while they implement the rules as they are stated, not as the police would like them to be stated. They also need to exercise common sense. For instance, a police drone harassing a couple out walking their dog is not showing common sense. Breaking up a group of twenty people sat together in the park is showing common sense.
All this will be a good test of the level of intellect of the police - including their senior officers.
All this will be a good test of the level of intellect of the police - including their senior officers.
I view it as society allowing the police to carry out a duty that all members of the public have, but on a full time basis.
Police are the public and the public are the police.
They have to remember they are there to uphold the law, not enforce it and stepping outside that remit will turn the public further against them.
We allow them to do their job.
Police are the public and the public are the police.
They have to remember they are there to uphold the law, not enforce it and stepping outside that remit will turn the public further against them.
We allow them to do their job.
I think this has all come about because the obviously very bored Cumbria Police posted footage of people walking in the Peaks miles from anywhere or anybody with their toy Drone.
I think the Police need to learn to avoid using Twitter for silly things like this, because they end up making themselves look rather daft.
I think the Police need to learn to avoid using Twitter for silly things like this, because they end up making themselves look rather daft.
They can only do their job because we allow as a society allow them to.
They couldn't deal with any level of mass disobedience at the moment.
We all know they're doing a difficult job but they need to remain in their lane.
The last thing we need is anything to raise tensions in the general public further right now.
On another note they need to stop using social media, or get a lot better at it.
They couldn't deal with any level of mass disobedience at the moment.
We all know they're doing a difficult job but they need to remain in their lane.
The last thing we need is anything to raise tensions in the general public further right now.
On another note they need to stop using social media, or get a lot better at it.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I think this has all come about because the obviously very bored Cumbria Police posted footage of people walking in the Peaks miles from anywhere or anybody with their toy Drone.
I think the Police need to learn to avoid using Twitter for silly things like this, because they end up making themselves look rather daft.
I think the Police need to learn to avoid using Twitter for silly things like this, because they end up making themselves look rather daft.
- Derbyshire.
Fundoreen said:
I dont know why people feel the need to test the police during this period.
Old bed ridden boris is probably itching to put the military on the streets.
I hadn't noticed anyone was.Old bed ridden boris is probably itching to put the military on the streets.
Because that worked so well in NI
What we could actually do with, is knowing what the plan is...
The problem is that they can't tell us, as there isn't one.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I think this has all come about because the obviously very bored Cumbria Police posted footage of people walking in the Peaks miles from anywhere or anybody with their toy Drone.
I think the Police need to learn to avoid using Twitter for silly things like this, because they end up making themselves look rather daft.
From the twitter post on the BBC that I saw, this wasn't so much harassing as getting footage from afar. They posted it as a good set of examples of what they say as unneeded travel, which the Govt said we shouldn't do.I think the Police need to learn to avoid using Twitter for silly things like this, because they end up making themselves look rather daft.
As said already in this, it comes about because of some of the vague rules the government have made. "You are only allowed out of the house once per day for exercise".
How long for? How far can you go? Can you take the car/train/bus/fly to/from it?
Derbyshire police (and others) clearly thing the answer to the last question is "No", and they want to show people that's what they say, with the twitter footage.
I suspect by picking the well known beauty spots they're also trying to prevent the accidental "gatherings" before they even start, by trying to stop every tom, dick and harry driving up for their daily walk.
The long and short is it really needs the government to be crystal clear on what's permitted, and then the Police can enforce if needed.
phil4 said:
From the twitter post on the BBC that I saw, this wasn't so much harassing as getting footage from afar. They posted it as a good set of examples of what they say as unneeded travel, which the Govt said we shouldn't do.
As said already in this, it comes about because of some of the vague rules the government have made. "You are only allowed out of the house once per day for exercise".
There is a rule that exercise is a legitimate reason for leaving the house, at least in England it isn't restricted to once a day. It isn't vague, if they'd said 'not too far' or not too frequently' that would be vague. Not putting a limit on the number means there is no limit.As said already in this, it comes about because of some of the vague rules the government have made. "You are only allowed out of the house once per day for exercise".
phil4 said:
How long for? How far can you go? Can you take the car/train/bus/fly to/from it?
Derbyshire police (and others) clearly thing the answer to the last question is "No", and they want to show people that's what they say, with the twitter footage.
It isn't up to Derbyshire police to make the rules.Derbyshire police (and others) clearly thing the answer to the last question is "No", and they want to show people that's what they say, with the twitter footage.
I'm seeing signs that the Italian lockdown is crumbling a little bit at the edges.
I don't know how long a lockdown can last before enough people start flouting it that the authorities have to resort to very draconian measures to enforce it
I hope this one here in the UK doesn't last long enough to test that theory
I don't know how long a lockdown can last before enough people start flouting it that the authorities have to resort to very draconian measures to enforce it
I hope this one here in the UK doesn't last long enough to test that theory
Dr Jekyll said:
It isn't up to Derbyshire police to make the rules.
I agree, the government need to. And sorry to say, we'll clearly disagree but I do see the government decree as vague.If we wanted to, permitted we a) don't return home and b) do at least something resembling exercise, and c) don't breach any of the other rules (eg. group gatherings) entitled to leave the house, travel however we like (multiple times if needed) to wherever we like and stay for as long as we like. Which is pretty much my normal working day.
This is clearly not what the government mean when they say "Stay at home". Ok, perhaps not "vague", just simply to simplistic to be worthwhile... which is more or less the same thing in this instance.
Derbyshire police weren't making the rules they were interpreting what the government were saying, and the law as enacted and enforcing that. The same as they do every and any time they arrest/stop/fine anyone.
The issue here is your view of what you can do for exercise is different to mine, and indeed we all seem to have a different view. That's why I say it's vague, because none of us know what we should be doing.
If the government rule says you can leave home for exercise providing you only travel a 'reasonable' distance and a police force decides 2 miles is reasonable, that's an interpretation.
If the government says you can leave home for exercise without mentioning distance and a police force decides they really meant no more than 2 miles, or not on Tuesdays, or providing you don't rest on a park bench at any point, that's attempting to make a new law, which they have no right to do. Even if we all agree that you SHOULD stay within 2 miles, that's irrelevant to police powers.
If the government says you can leave home for exercise without mentioning distance and a police force decides they really meant no more than 2 miles, or not on Tuesdays, or providing you don't rest on a park bench at any point, that's attempting to make a new law, which they have no right to do. Even if we all agree that you SHOULD stay within 2 miles, that's irrelevant to police powers.
This is the problem right here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/travel-advice-f...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/travel-advice-f...
Government said:
Today the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) has advised against all non-essential international travel, initially for a period of 30 days. This advice takes effect immediately.
andGovernment said:
Whether travel is essential or not is a personal decision and circumstances differ from person to person. It is for individuals themselves to make an informed decision based on the risks and FCO advice.
You can't tell people it's to up them to select from two options and then complain when they select the option you don't like.Seemed an apt point to bring this thread up:
https://twitter.com/RealSamVimes/status/1244726984...
https://twitter.com/RealSamVimes/status/1244726984...
@realsamvimes said:
A short thread for everyone moaning about the Police giving people tickets. I think we (you) need an insight into the realities of what some of the other members of Great British public are like. If you think everyone we deal with is normal like you, you are sadly mistaken.
They leave a 4 year old looking after a 2 year old whilst they go to the pub. They think using racist language at members of the public isn't racist if their "baby father" is (insert any minority group). They think that "because my mates do" is a valid reason to carry a knife.
These are the people we are having to deal with, who are out every 5 minutes going back and forward to Sharon's flat cause she needs some facking fags roit, who's kids are out looking for people to rob, but claiming they are just on their bikes for exercise.
So when you hear about someone getting ticketed for buying easter eggs there is probably more to it because the public we deal with isn't like you. The public we deal with are like them.
People like this.
They leave a 4 year old looking after a 2 year old whilst they go to the pub. They think using racist language at members of the public isn't racist if their "baby father" is (insert any minority group). They think that "because my mates do" is a valid reason to carry a knife.
These are the people we are having to deal with, who are out every 5 minutes going back and forward to Sharon's flat cause she needs some facking fags roit, who's kids are out looking for people to rob, but claiming they are just on their bikes for exercise.
So when you hear about someone getting ticketed for buying easter eggs there is probably more to it because the public we deal with isn't like you. The public we deal with are like them.
People like this.
Edited by sixspeed on Tuesday 31st March 15:15
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