Does the NHSX Contact Tracing app record your location?

[babelfish]

Who believes the government is trying to track all our movements?

[steveatesh]

babelfish said:

Who believes the government is trying to track all our movements?

Assuming they are, in your mind what will they do with the information ?

[babelfish]

steveatesh said:

babelfish said:

Who believes the government is trying to track all our movements?

Assuming they are, in your mind what will they do with the information ?

In my mind, they are not.

If they were, I'm not doing anything that I'd care about them knowing about.

I'd like to understand why people assume they are when they say they are not, and if they were what are so many people trying to hide when it could be a tool to get us out of "lock down".

There are other concerns about how it works but I need to read up more to understand these more fully, but at the mo I'm for using it.

[Gecko1978]

its not the intentions of the central government that worries me its all local layers who will want access and like with anti terror laws will then abuse thoes powers to spy in your bins or parking habits.

The point is while it can be said the government is trying very hard to protect us all and resolve this (i find little merit in examining every action an saying well if you did this 3 days earlier or had more of thoes in stock etc), scope creep happens and then other parts of the state do and have abused such powers.

So no I wont download it but if i did it would show me home, supermarket, the gym, kids school and post lock down work. not much else but its not the point its the fact they might use that data at all for anything else.

[pip t]

The NHSX app, for all it's many potential failings, does not, at present, use GPS or signal triangulation to track your geographical location, no.

They have said they may ask for this, on a voluntary basis in the future. You will be at liberty to deny it, just as you are at liberty to decline to use the app at all when it's released, or delete the app if you decide you'd rather not have it in future.

There are various privacy concerns around tracking your contacts (As in people you come into contact with, not your address book). Geographical location tracking is not one of them.

[pip t]

Just come across this article, which is long, but well worth the read. Addresses a lot of concerns surrounding the app and the centralised/ decentralised argument.

Not sure I agree with everything in it, but as someone who's ideologically in the decentralised camp, it certainly gave me food for thought.

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-...

Technical paper referred to in the article:

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/nhs-covid-19-app-pr...

[Some Gump]

babelfish said:

Who believes the government is trying to track all our movements?

It'd be a fairly st "who had you been near?" App if it didn't know where you are, or where you've been.

Other than standard conspiracy loon open question with no substance, what is the point you're trying to get to?

[98elise]

babelfish said:

Who believes the government is trying to track all our movements?

Your phone provider already tracks your movements without you downloading an app. It's just the way the phone network works. If the government wanted to track your movements they could get that from the phone company.

Taken at face value this app doesn't track your movements, it just tracks who you have been near (not where)

[anonymous-user]

Some Gump said:

It'd be a fairly st "who had you been near?" App if it didn't know where you are, or where you've been.

Other than standard conspiracy loon open question with no substance, what is the point you're trying to get to?

Its a proximity tracker, not a location tracker.

A proximity tracker doesn't give a monkeys where you are, its only interested in if you were next to someone else.

You'd have to be fairly st not to understand why you dont need location information with such a system.

[Electro1980]

pip t said:

Just come across this article, which is long, but well worth the read. Addresses a lot of concerns surrounding the app and the centralised/ decentralised argument.

Not sure I agree with everything in it, but as someone who's ideologically in the decentralised camp, it certainly gave me food for thought.

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-...

Technical paper referred to in the article:

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/nhs-covid-19-app-pr...

The links don’t work I’m afraid.

[Electro1980]

babelfish said:

Who believes the government is trying to track all our movements?

The concern is not about the government trying to track all of our movements. It’s about

1) The amount of unnecessary data being taken. The government have stated the reason that they want it centralised is so that it can be used for research, not just contact tracing.

2) What else can this data be used for. The abuse of RIPA by local councils sets a vary worrying example. Look at what happened to union activists in the 1970’s. People were tracked, lost jobs, arrested, charged and had their lives disrupted and in some cases destroyed, without the use of tracking.

3) How can this data be abused if stolen. This represents a huge target for hackers, and totally unneeded.

This isn’t “deep state” the government want to read my thoughts stuff. It is genuine concern based on evidence of past failure and abuse.

[Zirconia]

Mission creep with this app is a concern, if it is completely anonymised at the moment. The firm making it and the drivers need to be completely open and examined, they have not at the moment?

I fear that "app shaming" will be part of the government drive.

The consents could be interesting.

[tangerine_sedge]

I find it mildly amusing that people have their panties in a twist cconcerning the security of this particular app, but willingly give away more personal information to Apple/Google/Amazon/Dodgy-unknown-app-maker on a daily basis...

[sc0tt]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Can I ask why?

[PositronicRay]

sc0tt said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Can I ask why?

I don't have a smart phone, simply because I've no need. Even if given away I can't see me using one.

[bitchstewie]

tangerine_sedge said:

I find it mildly amusing that people have their panties in a twist cconcerning the security of this particular app, but willingly give away more personal information to Apple/Google/Amazon/Dodgy-unknown-app-maker on a daily basis...

On their £50 eBay Chinese Android special usually.

But it's the NHS app you've got to worry about

[itsnotarace]

Ask yourself if you really trust what the government are doing given Palantir and Faculty's involvement in the development of the app, then google Marc Warner his brother Ben Warner and Dominic Cummings connections

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/22/palantir-corona...

https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discov...

Now ask yourself if you trust the government to properly protect that data and not expose it to all and sundry on a non-password protected publicly accessible website

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/28/anpr_shef...

or just sell the data lock stock as they see fit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/n...

It doesn't take much imagination to make the leap from "infected by association" to "guilty by association". Scary what civil liberties people are willing to sign away whether they have anything to hide or not.

[Zirconia]

tangerine_sedge said:

I find it mildly amusing that people have their panties in a twist cconcerning the security of this particular app, but willingly give away more personal information to Apple/Google/Amazon/Dodgy-unknown-app-maker on a daily basis...

Yeah, well, how many people read the Google T+C or Facebook T+C.

I accept that some use with apps will use your data depending on what it is for, I choose what to use and what to not use with privacy vs return. Google I avoid like the plague as far as possible. Apple I trust to a certain degree as they want to use your data for their products but I expect their use to be better anonymised or they take a hit on profits.

Apps that I buy, I usually run through the privacy and T+C. Free apps are another thing and one to be more wary of, e.g one free game app I liked on the Apple TV changed theirs after a while and they were too far for me in tracking and wanting more data so I deleted the game.

Gives me something to do.

There is a lot the Warner brothers need to let out for examination and indeed how they got the contract. Might be it is a god sent app that saves us all. This is going to be spun a lot, the language used at the stand ups is already clear but I think sneaks in under peoples radar as it is attached to what is a good tag line, protect the NHS etc.

[Electro1980]

bhstewie said:

tangerine_sedge said:

I find it mildly amusing that people have their panties in a twist cconcerning the security of this particular app, but willingly give away more personal information to Apple/Google/Amazon/Dodgy-unknown-app-maker on a daily basis...

On their £50 eBay Chinese Android special usually.

But it's the NHS app you've got to worry about

I use an iPhone, I understand what data I have and have not passed on and am carful about what data I give and the laws governing it. I do understand the law, the risks with each type of data and each service. There are services I don’t use because I don’t trust them with my data, and services I only partly trust I limit what I do with them.

None of those services however are capable of changing the law to suit their needs, or taking any action against you for things not related directly to their service.

Just because you don’t understand the security and privacy risk does not mean it does not exist.

[bitchstewie]

Electro1980 said:

I use an iPhone, I understand what data I have and have not passed on and am carful about what data I give and the laws governing it. I do understand the law, the risks with each type of data and each service. There are services I don’t use because I don’t trust them with my data, and services I only partly trust I limit what I do with them.

None of those services however are capable of changing the law to suit their needs, or taking any action against you for things not related directly to their service.

Just because you don’t understand the security and privacy risk does not mean it does not exist.

If the government want to know stuff about you there are simpler ways of doing it than persuading the population to install an app on their phones and making the source code available for people to inspect.

Yes there are privacy and security concerns but personally I think people are overblowing them based on everything we know so far.