Two Metres Social Distancing - really necessary?
Discussion
Distancing advice in England could change to allow closer contact
"The guidance is out of line with advice in most other countries and with recommendations from the World Health Organization, which says people should stay just one metre apart."
and
"Doyle [medical director of PHE] said she was aware that a reduction to 1 metre or 1.5 metres could make the difference between businesses reopening or not."
It seems like one of these things that could make a huge difference to how quickly we can move towards normality:
- The schools are at pains to point out that returning to school with 2m distancing is effectively unworkable (and they're right)
- While schools are out many workers cannot return due to childcare issues
- Restuarants and cafes may be uneconomic at 2m and (possibly) sustainable with 1m distancing.
- At the supermarket everyone waits 2m apart outside in line, then pass each other closer than that inside. This has been the case even since the start of lockdown in my experience
- We also have the ridiculous scenario of people stepping into the road when briefly passing another pedestrian. I say ridiculous because the evidence says transmission risk is a combination of proximity and time, and is low outside anyway.
Yes, I am well aware of the evidence that the closer people are the more the risk of spreading the virus, but a vaccine will be a long time coming, and we need to balance the risks with getting on with life.
"The guidance is out of line with advice in most other countries and with recommendations from the World Health Organization, which says people should stay just one metre apart."
and
"Doyle [medical director of PHE] said she was aware that a reduction to 1 metre or 1.5 metres could make the difference between businesses reopening or not."
It seems like one of these things that could make a huge difference to how quickly we can move towards normality:
- The schools are at pains to point out that returning to school with 2m distancing is effectively unworkable (and they're right)
- While schools are out many workers cannot return due to childcare issues
- Restuarants and cafes may be uneconomic at 2m and (possibly) sustainable with 1m distancing.
- At the supermarket everyone waits 2m apart outside in line, then pass each other closer than that inside. This has been the case even since the start of lockdown in my experience
- We also have the ridiculous scenario of people stepping into the road when briefly passing another pedestrian. I say ridiculous because the evidence says transmission risk is a combination of proximity and time, and is low outside anyway.
Yes, I am well aware of the evidence that the closer people are the more the risk of spreading the virus, but a vaccine will be a long time coming, and we need to balance the risks with getting on with life.
Maybe I'm alone in this but I actually like the 2 metre rule.
One of the many reasons: it's too far apart to shake hands with anyone, so that mentally complex and physically virus-transmitting social habit is banned.
It's also much too far apart for any of this body-hugging that's become the social norm over the last few decades. Wonderful!
One of the many reasons: it's too far apart to shake hands with anyone, so that mentally complex and physically virus-transmitting social habit is banned.
It's also much too far apart for any of this body-hugging that's become the social norm over the last few decades. Wonderful!
What's wrong with asking for 2m where possible? It's no hardship!
For example, if stood queuing then you're there for a while. There's no need to bunch up and there is space to spread apart. Once in the supermarket it's not as easy to do this BUT passing by closely is only a momentary thing.
For example, if stood queuing then you're there for a while. There's no need to bunch up and there is space to spread apart. Once in the supermarket it's not as easy to do this BUT passing by closely is only a momentary thing.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 May 11:20
With every other viruses, we are told it takes some 15 minutes or so of close contact to be at risk of getting a virus.
I don't understand this 2m distancing malarkey and jumping out onto the road or back peddling up footpaths to avoid people.
It's, in my opinion, and little ridiculous.
Obviously contracting a virus through a surface is a different matter.
I don't understand this 2m distancing malarkey and jumping out onto the road or back peddling up footpaths to avoid people.
It's, in my opinion, and little ridiculous.
Obviously contracting a virus through a surface is a different matter.
InfoRetrieval said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Except, as I said, it's the difference between businesses reopening, or going bust. There's the hardship.It will have a massive effect on this summer's UK tourist industries, for whom time is rapidly running out.
So many of those are likely f
ked until social distancing is totally dropped.But then there's the tourism industry which, in this country, is effectively a large number of people from areas of dense population travelling to a rural area or area of low population density and creating pockets of high population density there and at stopping points on the way! This risks transmission to those areas that have lower population and in turn less hospital capacity. It's a proper catch 22 situation! The councils in those areas are asking people to stay away. What would happen if a place like St Ives became a viral hotspot? Would they cope? Look at what happened to the cruise ships, for example.
But my point is that I don't see a specific hardship in giving 2m where possible.
Social distancing at any level, 2m, 1m, 50cm, is a hardship of a kind for certain industries but also prevents another type of hardship for them.
JagLover said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It might be fine in supermarket queues but the main issue is many workplaces aren't viable at 2m and it is a distance that has no basis in medical guidance. As already pointed out WHO is advising 1 metre. Where it's possible to get 2m then do it. No need to get knickers in a twist over it.
But then, 1m is still too large for many businesses to operate effectively anyway. Some of them need a total end to distancing to be able to operate viably. For example serving meals to a table. How long are your arms? What are the spaces between tables? I'd bet you that a typical restaurant with 1m rule would need to half the number of tables they normally have, but the same chefs and cooks would still have to be employed to serve fewer people. Their clientele would probably have to come to a counter to order (when called up, no queueing) and then come back to collect it when it's done.
Pesty said:
Wacky Racer said:
They have nothing to fear from this virus as they are you g and fit and 3/4 don’t even have symptoms But that rubbish is ducking disgusting.
tting outside because they've gone to a beach but the conveniences are shut. I don't normally speak of people in these terms but whoever left that mess, well, they're scummy, dirty bds. We've a thread about travellers and the mess they leave. How is that any different?ReallyReallyGood said:
Pesty said:
What about the parents they may live with? Or the care home they may work in?People think about themselves, "I'm all right Jack" . It's not its about reducing the "R' rate.
Pesty said:
Wacky Racer said:
They have nothing to fear from this virus as they are you g and fit and 3/4 don’t even have symptoms But that rubbish is ducking disgusting.
All the stuff about a two metre distance required, have a look back at the ‘Socially accepted personal space’ . See it varies dependant upon circumstances but generally anything from one metre to two metres. Last few months have at least reinforced the old ‘put down’ of ‘get out of my space’. That uncomfortable feeling when somebody is a little to close. Well now it legitimised 
Social Distancing is something of an oxymoron is it not? More Anti Social Distancing.
However, a most learned friend of mine once noted that anyone in a room of say 12ft square would transmit a virus (this was pre hysteria days) to everyone in that same room within about 10 minutes. Their location was not relevant in that room.
This virus however appears to not conform to any known cycles or structures of any other virus. For example I have never heard of a virus which will not be transmitted by a nanny or cleaner entering your house but will be by your parents coming to visit. I have never heard of a virus that will not be transmitted if you are in a store but 6ft away from someone however it will be transmitted to your friends and family even if you were sat in the garden 6ft feet away from each other. I've never heard of a virus that does not get transmitted between people travelling in a car as long as they have the windows down.
It is a fascinating virus.
However, a most learned friend of mine once noted that anyone in a room of say 12ft square would transmit a virus (this was pre hysteria days) to everyone in that same room within about 10 minutes. Their location was not relevant in that room.
This virus however appears to not conform to any known cycles or structures of any other virus. For example I have never heard of a virus which will not be transmitted by a nanny or cleaner entering your house but will be by your parents coming to visit. I have never heard of a virus that will not be transmitted if you are in a store but 6ft away from someone however it will be transmitted to your friends and family even if you were sat in the garden 6ft feet away from each other. I've never heard of a virus that does not get transmitted between people travelling in a car as long as they have the windows down.
It is a fascinating virus.
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