Cars and politics

[R Mutt]

I'm sure the war against the motorist has been done to death but is the car being demonised?

It strikes me as the case when the drive for electric vehicles is completely undermined by the current trend of pedestrianisation. Yes you can do both but policies seem to be geared more to a move away from cars completely.

I've just seen a friend on social media asking if people have managed to go car free for environmental reasons. It sounds like the alternative for her to carry equipment on public transport (or hire car) would be a massive headache.

Well all know public transport moves people more efficiently, except going back decades no one had the foresight to increase the flow of private vehicles, in fact the opposite, and aside from bus lanes, planning such as bus stops before junctions, especially where the bus turns right, or bus stops metres apart, fails to enable the bus to transport people efficiently either. Even Smart Motorways have failed.

Could we just have made roads better for everyone decades ago?

[Dr Jekyll]

Public transport only 'works' when you have large numbers of people making roughly the same journey and willing to travel at the same time.

[R Mutt]

Dr Jekyll said:

Public transport only 'works' when you have large numbers of people making roughly the same journey and willing to travel at the same time.

Which is less the status quo now. I've only been on a few busses or trains lately but none had more than a dozen people on.

[motco]

Dr Jekyll said:

Public transport only 'works' when you have large numbers of people making roughly the same journey and willing to travel at the same time.

Exactly. My car leaves my home when I want to leave, arrives at my destination when I want it to (usually), and returns me, and my luggage, likewise. It is always at least 25% occupied (buses and taxis are effectively empty some of the time). I take issue with public transport being more efficient, until 'efficiency' is defined and agreed.

[J4CKO]

As a society we went mental for the car, to the detriment of all other forms of transport.

Car usage I think has peaked and is dropping back a bit, started with fuel prices going daft and Covid has meant loads of people arent driving as much as they are at home.

Now, so many folk have zero imagination about getting about and always default to taking the car, I see my neighbour drive less than quarter of a mile to get a paper, that to me isnt a legitimate use of a 1.5 tonne five seat vehicle, to transport one person a short distance, I wouldn't bother with my bicycle for that.

Cars are great, thats why every fker has one and why you end up stuck in queues of them, Boris has the right idea promoting cycling and walking as someone on a bike takes up much less space if they can use one, than one person in a car, we all need to have a think.

So many seem to think everyone else is the problem without every looking at their own contribution to the situation.

Should be compulsory for everyone who is able to own and use a bicycle, am joking before people start frothing.

[Unknown_User]

Dr Jekyll said:

Public transport only 'works' when you have large numbers of people making roughly the same journey and willing to travel at the same time.

Doesn't the London Underground operate 24 hours a day? With 270 stations and 11 separate lines?

[Dr Jekyll]

Unknown_User said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Public transport only 'works' when you have large numbers of people making roughly the same journey and willing to travel at the same time.

Doesn't the London Underground operate 24 hours a day? With 270 stations and 11 separate lines?

............and a massive subsidy because it's normally running under capacity outside the rush hours.

Big cities are an environment where public transport can be efficient because you have enough people wanting to travel a lot of the time.

[TwistingMyMelon]

J4CKO said:

As a society we went mental for the car, to the detriment of all other forms of transport.

Car usage I think has peaked and is dropping back a bit, started with fuel prices going daft and Covid has meant loads of people arent driving as much as they are at home.

Now, so many folk have zero imagination about getting about and always default to taking the car, I see my neighbour drive less than quarter of a mile to get a paper, that to me isnt a legitimate use of a 1.5 tonne five seat vehicle, to transport one person a short distance, I wouldn't bother with my bicycle for that.

Cars are great, thats why every fker has one and why you end up stuck in queues of them, Boris has the right idea promoting cycling and walking as someone on a bike takes up much less space if they can use one, than one person in a car, we all need to have a think.

So many seem to think everyone else is the problem without every looking at their own contribution to the situation.

Should be compulsory for everyone who is able to own and use a bicycle, am joking before people start frothing.

Good post, right tool for job

[coolg]

Dr Jekyll said:

Public transport only 'works' when you have large numbers of people making roughly the same journey and willing to travel at the same time.

have you tried commuting into London ???

Maybe 6 stops from where i get on;

After 3 standing room only after 5 no chance of getting on at all.

It is a fairly grim trip.

Can you fix it ?
Congestion at main London Stations would suggest not.
Driving isn't really a option though

[R Mutt]

J4CKO said:

Now, so many folk have zero imagination about getting about and always default to taking the car, I see my neighbour drive less than quarter of a mile to get a paper, that to me isnt a legitimate use of a 1.5 tonne five seat vehicle, to transport one person a short distance, I wouldn't bother with my bicycle for that.

Well we could tax those people out of the habit but there's minimal environmental impact further to the manufacture (and disposal) of that vehicle and he won't I'm guessing bother making that journey in traffic so it seems it's easier just to make driving difficult for everyone under the guise it benefiting busses, cyclists and the planet

I get public transport to work (when not WFH) and walk for exercise at the weekends. Otherwise it's only to see family I'll drive which otherwise takes 4 times as long.

The idea that as of next year I'll be charged £12.50 to drive my diesel out of my road just means I'll have to buy a newer car which I'll get stuck on main roads in as they've closed all the others, which makes little sense as there will be commercial vehicles, busses, taxis and anyone else who has to drive for work still emitting pollution along the main roads where they're also sticking loads of flats.

Of course everyone feels hard done by when they have to change their habits but there's been nothing done to actually make public transport more efficient as there are more cars on fewer roads.

Edited by R Mutt on Wednesday 29th July 16:04

[R Mutt]

Lentilist said:

Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, if we're comparing private cars to public transport, we'd need to compare the amount of time both sit around empty and unused over the course of an entire day. A bus or taxi might not be at full capacity for each journey, but they will be making such journeys all day, every day, whereas private cars will spend the vast majority of the same day parked at home/work completely empty and doing nothing but taking up space.

Parked = 0 CO2

[Unknown_User]

R Mutt said:

Lentilist said:

Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, if we're comparing private cars to public transport, we'd need to compare the amount of time both sit around empty and unused over the course of an entire day. A bus or taxi might not be at full capacity for each journey, but they will be making such journeys all day, every day, whereas private cars will spend the vast majority of the same day parked at home/work completely empty and doing nothing but taking up space.

Parked = 0 CO2

Are you taking manufacture of the vehicle into account? And if we really want to widen the discussion, shall we include infrastructure, shipping, fuels etc?

[R Mutt]

Unknown_User said:

R Mutt said:

Lentilist said:

Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, if we're comparing private cars to public transport, we'd need to compare the amount of time both sit around empty and unused over the course of an entire day. A bus or taxi might not be at full capacity for each journey, but they will be making such journeys all day, every day, whereas private cars will spend the vast majority of the same day parked at home/work completely empty and doing nothing but taking up space.

Parked = 0 CO2

Are you taking manufacture of the vehicle into account? And if we really want to widen the discussion, shall we include infrastructure, shipping, fuels etc?

Well that's worse for EV and lithium mining.

[Type R Tom]

In this country, we have a congestion and air quality issues and an obesity and mental health problem. Exercise is generally regarded as “wonder drug” and solves two problems, sustainable transport methods would solve the other two. Most people (outside of major cities) aren’t being asked to give up their cars just think more about their transport choices and how they impact other people. That way capacity on the roads will be increased, the gym membership can be canceled, few lbs dropped and you’ll probably feel a bit better personally.

[Dr Jekyll]

Type R Tom said:

In this country, we have a congestion and air quality issues and an obesity and mental health problem. Exercise is generally regarded as “wonder drug” and solves two problems, sustainable transport methods would solve the other two. Most people (outside of major cities) aren’t being asked to give up their cars just think more about their transport choices and how they impact other people. That way capacity on the roads will be increased, the gym membership can be canceled, few lbs dropped and you’ll probably feel a bit better personally.

Air quality is better than it's been for centuries and what pollution remains doesn't come just from cars or even vehicles.

When people outside major cities choose to drive to work it isn't because they haven't thought about their choices, it's because when they thought about them they concluded that despite punitive taxation it's the least worst method of getting to their destination.

What's the point of increasing road capacity if we aren't allowed to travel freely?

[R Mutt]

Type R Tom said:

In this country, we have a congestion and air quality issues and an obesity and mental health problem. Exercise is generally regarded as “wonder drug” and solves two problems, sustainable transport methods would solve the other two. Most people (outside of major cities) aren’t being asked to give up their cars just think more about their transport choices and how they impact other people. That way capacity on the roads will be increased, the gym membership can be canceled, few lbs dropped and you’ll probably feel a bit better personally.

Obviously I can't fully gauge the weight of every driver I see, but obesity seems more an issue tied to poverty, and those who can't afford a car, is confirmed by looking at bus passengers.

I know someone who was given a car due to obesity related mobility issues.

I cover more miles a week on foot than by car but you may be on to something, where this is connected to the new COVID related cycling push. The current trend of blocking roads with planters as seen below has been attributed to different reasons by different councils, ranging from pollution, to social distancing, to roadworks however they all have identical planters and COVID related signage so seems a bit suspicious that these are all complete unrelated and put up at each council's discretion.

[TheFungle]

It hards to see how as a society we have reached anything other than peak car.

Roads are at capacity and aside from localised 'nip & tucks' to make traffic flow just that little bit easier, what else can be done to alleviate this but move to an alternative form of transport?

Unless you actively enjoy congestion and poor air quality I fail to see how the car as a pure form of utility transport, can continue to be justified.

[Type R Tom]

Dr Jekyll said:

Type R Tom said:

In this country, we have a congestion and air quality issues and an obesity and mental health problem. Exercise is generally regarded as “wonder drug” and solves two problems, sustainable transport methods would solve the other two. Most people (outside of major cities) aren’t being asked to give up their cars just think more about their transport choices and how they impact other people. That way capacity on the roads will be increased, the gym membership can be canceled, few lbs dropped and you’ll probably feel a bit better personally.

Air quality is better than it's been for centuries and what pollution remains doesn't come just from cars or even vehicles.

When people outside major cities choose to drive to work it isn't because they haven't thought about their choices, it's because when they thought about them they concluded that despite punitive taxation it's the least worst method of getting to their destination.

What's the point of increasing road capacity if we aren't allowed to travel freely?

Nothing to see here then, as you were?

Or the average car journey in the UK is about 8 miles and therefore a fair chunk could probably be cycled for example

[Dr Jekyll]

TheFungle said:

It hards to see how as a society we have reached anything other than peak car.

Roads are at capacity and aside from localised 'nip & tucks' to make traffic flow just that little bit easier, what else can be done to alleviate this but move to an alternative form of transport?

Unless you actively enjoy congestion and poor air quality I fail to see how the car as a pure form of utility transport, can continue to be justified.

Some roads have always been full to capacity




and sure enough people do use alternatives. traffic finds it's own level.

[R Mutt]

I can't ride a bike as was never taught, for a number of reasons. Will they be providing training?