Adverts for large polluting cars “should be banned”

[DanL]

At least, according to one group:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53607147

They’re even saying that larger cars with hybrid or electric technology pollute more, as they give off more particles from brakes and tyres!

Can’t see it working, or making a difference personally, but it does make me wonder where you’ll draw the line if you’re considering brake dust to be polluting!

[Equus]

DanL said:

... it does make me wonder where you’ll draw the line...

I wouldn't see it as wholly unreasonable to ban car advertising altogether.

If people need a car, they'll buy one regardless, and there are plenty of more informative sources (in terms of detailing equipment, performance, etc.) than a magazine advert or TV commercial.

We don't really need - and perhaps it isn't desirable - for manufacturers to be promoting purchase of the latest model as an aspirational lifestyle accessory?

[kiethton]

The thing is you need to look at why SUV's and heavier cars are increasingly preferred:

Regulations re. safety meaning increasingly larger/heavier cars to maintain interior space
Road design and lack of maintenance, necessitating more suspension travel to get over speed humps/absorb potholes....

[robinessex]

People are buying tanks, because the roads are now so stty.

[livinginasia]

Equus said:

I wouldn't see it as wholly unreasonable to ban car advertising altogether.

If people need a car, they'll buy one regardless, and there are plenty of more informative sources (in terms of detailing equipment, performance, etc.) than a magazine advert or TV commercial.

We don't really need - and perhaps it isn't desirable - for manufacturers to be promoting purchase of the latest model as an aspirational lifestyle accessory?

What a strange world you live in. We don't "need" the latest iPhone, or the latest washing powder, or any more life insurance, or a wonder mop that saves you minutes of precious time cleaning and removes every stain known to man, but advertising is what pays for plenty of newspapers, websites, YouTube Facebook etc etc.... much as adverts can be annoying, we wouldn't have any content without them.

[anonymous-user]

The advertising industry will be mourning the loss of yet another customer base.

Smoking went years ago, and the cigarette industry were massive spenders on advertising.

At a guess, soon the following advertising will be banned:

Fast food/unhealthy food
Alcohol
Cars (or possibly certain types of cars)

I expect fashion, electronics and supermarkets will keep the advertisers busy though.

The biggest advertisers in the UK are as follows:

1) SKY TV
2) McDonalds
3) Proctor and Gamble
4) Amazon
5) BT
6) Reckitt Benckiser
7) Unilever
8) Tesco
9) National Lottery
10) ASDA

[deadtom]

DanL said:

At least, according to one group:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53607147

They’re even saying that larger cars with hybrid or electric technology pollute more, as they give off more particles from brakes and tyres!

Can’t see it working, or making a difference personally, but it does make me wonder where you’ll draw the line if you’re considering brake dust to be polluting!

The problem is that brake and tyre dust is polluting, and makes up approximately 50% of vehicle particulate emissions. Particulates being the nasty stuff that gets in your lungs and causes all sorts of unpleasant problems. It's the same stuff that puts the 'dirty' in 'dirty diesels' that people on PH like to bang on about. It's the same stuff that makes your wheels, front especially look sooty after a lot of use.

I don't really know how to feel about the banning of car adverts as, given how neutered car advertising has to be these days anyway, I don't think it would be much of a loss at this point.

[Equus]

livinginasia said:

We don't "need" the latest iPhone, or the latest washing powder, or any more life insurance, or a wonder mop that saves you minutes of precious time cleaning and removes every stain known to man, but advertising is what pays for plenty of newspapers, websites, YouTube Facebook etc etc....

And why is that actually desirable?

Is it 'strange' to question why we need to spend our lives running round on a hamster wheel of conspicuous consumption, just for the sake of it?

[Kawasicki]

kiethton said:

The thing is you need to look at why SUV's and heavier cars are increasingly preferred:

Regulations re. safety meaning increasingly larger/heavier cars to maintain interior space
Road design and lack of maintenance, necessitating more suspension travel to get over speed humps/absorb potholes....

People buy big cars, because they prefer them that way. Cars aren’t bigger because of crash regulations. A Renault Twizy, VW Up, etc. meet all crash safety requirements.

[anonymous-user]

Kawasicki said:

kiethton said:

The thing is you need to look at why SUV's and heavier cars are increasingly preferred:

Regulations re. safety meaning increasingly larger/heavier cars to maintain interior space
Road design and lack of maintenance, necessitating more suspension travel to get over speed humps/absorb potholes....

People buy big cars, because they prefer them that way. Cars aren’t bigger because of crash regulations. A Renault Twizy, VW Up, etc. meet all crash safety requirements.

What Kiethton was meaning that once you stuff a small car full of crash protection equipment, technology, and sound deadening, it becomes quite small inside, so you have to buy a larger car to give a suitable amount of room.

Look at how small something like a mk2 Golf is, yet the interior space and boot space was really quite generous. In order to have something with the interior and boot space of a mk2 Golf, you now have to buy a car which is physically larger externally.

I've been in large new saloon cars that I honestly don't think had anywhere near the cabin space as something a lot smaller and older.

We clearly don't want to go back to the days of lacking crash protection, sound deadening, and technology, so much bigger cars is the only way forward.

[RedAlfa]

This is bullst!

I drive a heavy, smooth, very reliable saloon car, that also happens to be a guzzler. Why? UK roads are in terrible condition. They are shameful in many areas!

Edited by RedAlfa on Monday 3rd August 11:37

[DanL]

deadtom said:

The problem is that brake and tyre dust is polluting, and makes up approximately 50% of vehicle particulate emissions. Particulates being the nasty stuff that gets in your lungs and causes all sorts of unpleasant problems. It's the same stuff that puts the 'dirty' in 'dirty diesels' that people on PH like to bang on about. It's the same stuff that makes your wheels, front especially look sooty after a lot of use.

I don't really know how to feel about the banning of car adverts as, given how neutered car advertising has to be these days anyway, I don't think it would be much of a loss at this point.

Thats interesting - I was aware that particulates were an issue, but didn’t know brake dust and tyre dust were such significant contributors.

The end of this road is either improved brake and tyre technology (and perhaps regenerative braking will assist here?), or banning of cars...

[Kawasicki]

Lord Marylebone said:

Kawasicki said:

kiethton said:

The thing is you need to look at why SUV's and heavier cars are increasingly preferred:

Regulations re. safety meaning increasingly larger/heavier cars to maintain interior space
Road design and lack of maintenance, necessitating more suspension travel to get over speed humps/absorb potholes....

People buy big cars, because they prefer them that way. Cars aren’t bigger because of crash regulations. A Renault Twizy, VW Up, etc. meet all crash safety requirements.

What Kiethton was meaning that once you stuff a small car full of crash protection equipment, technology, and sound deadening, it becomes quite small inside, so you have to buy a larger car to give a suitable amount of room.

Look at how small something like a mk2 Golf is, yet the interior space and boot space was really quite generous. In order to have something with the interior and boot space of a mk2 Golf, you now have to buy a car which is physically larger externally.

I've been in large new saloon cars that I honestly don't think had anywhere near the cabin space as something a lot smaller and older.

We clearly don't want to go back to the days of lacking crash protection, sound deadening, and technology, so much bigger cars is the only way forward.

I disagree. When last I looked, car interior space was increasing at about the same rate as the exterior dimensions. There was actually a slight improvement in package efficiency, but I only checked a few cars.

A BMW 3 series Is a perfect example. I’ve owned a few, and driven most. The E30 is now a small car, it’s small inside too. Jump in a modern 3 series after driving an E30 and it feels much larger, interior included.

People prefer big cars. They also prefer quieter cars, and they like heavy features like sunroofs and electric seats. They like torque rich powertrains, which means they are heavier too.

[Ransoman]

RedAlfa said:

This is bullst!

I drive a heavy, smooth, very reliable saloon car, that also happens to be a guzzler. Why? UK roads are in terrible condition. They are shameful in many areas!

Edited by RedAlfa on Monday 3rd August 11:37

This indeed. The single reason my daily is a Freelander and not my Alfa is the state of the roads. I am sick and tired of replacing worn suspension components and destroyed shock absorbers because of all the potholes, ruts, sink holes, sunken drain covers, failed services installation infils etc.

[LukeBrown66]

To be honest the majority of large polluting cars do not need advertising, when was the last time you saw an advert for a top end car like Bentley, Aston, Ferrari, even Range Rover.

They sell because rich people buy them as status symbols. And those people will buy them regardless of how much they cost, Why waste advertising money on them when you can overcharge them ludicrously for the cars in the first place?

[Sophisticated Sarah]

Can’t we ban the watermelon groups instead? Sure everyone would be happier

[REDGTA]

These people have totally misunderstood why people buy the cars they do. What a load of old rubbish.

Here is another proposal. (totally crazy but demonstrates the point)
Make it illegal to own any car that is NOT a Lamborghini Urus. Then you solve emissions, congestion, parking and you drive most people to public transport. Simples.

Luxury SUV's can save the world :-)

[markjmd]

REDGTA said:

These people have totally misunderstood why people buy the cars they do. What a load of old rubbish.

Here is another proposal. (totally crazy but demonstrates the point)
Make it illegal to own any car that is NOT a Lamborghini Urus. Then you solve emissions, congestion, parking and you drive most people to public transport. Simples.

Problem solved, close thread!

[A Winner Is You]

Interesting to see there's a line about how EV's still pollute. Laying the groundwork nicely for something that will require them to be taxed for the sake of the planet once they become commonplace.

[deadtom]

DanL said:

hats interesting - I was aware that particulates were an issue, but didn’t know brake dust and tyre dust were such significant contributors.

The end of this road is either improved brake and tyre technology (and perhaps regenerative braking will assist here?), or banning of cars...

Indeed, it's something that most people wouldn't even think about until it's pointed out then you'll start noticing how that black grime gets everywhere, how it changes the colour of the water running off the road when it rains for the first time in a while, the characteristic persistent smell of brakes, tyres and clutches that you get during circuit driving etc.

Of course these things are part of the experience for people like us who love cars, but to the majority of the population it's just a smelly health hazard, especially as a lot of these particulates are in the PM10 range, which is the real nasty stuff.

You are right, regen braking for EVs will certainly help with the brake dust, though it's no help for tyre particles, which will be worse with EVs due to their extra mass and corresponding increase in kinetic energy that needs to be got rid of through the contact patches,

I possibly sound like I am in favour of banning all big polluting cars and am on the wrong website, but if I were rich enough my fleet would still contain among others, an L322 range rover and a jag XJR because I love those sorts of cars, but there is no doubt that the pollution they cause is real.