Sectors most hit by Covid - more help availiable?
Discussion
Sad to hear about HoHoHo's exhibition business being forced to close down on the other thread. The exhibitions and live events industry must surely be the hardest hit out of all industries out there right now. Still enduring a 100% forced closure and unable to trade due to government rules.
I believe that corporate event stuff has been given the green light to operate from October, yet from what I have heard, the continuing uncertainty around travel, mask wearing, general knee jerk government policy, and the PPE/cleaning/social distancing requirements at present is meaning that companies seem reluctant to commit to or book anything at present.
Friends of mine run a (previous to March 2020) very successful a company supplying Audio Visual, technical support and crew for the live events industries (think gigs, festivals, corporate, conference etc). Sounds like they are on the verge of throwing the towel in too with little support available for their staff once furlough ends, yet also no confirmed work until at least spring 221 at the earliest. It's a case of either take what little money is left in the business now and close, or wait for the inevitable bankruptcy. So it is becoming clear that however well run, however well they have planned, businesses simply cannot survive a full 12 months closure of their entire sector.
Knowing what I know, I'm concerned that a lot of perfectly viable businesses will go to the wall this autumn, with entire sectors of our economy absolutely decimated. These sectors have been forced to stop trading by the government so isn't it only right that the government should now step in and support them?
I'd be interested to know of there any other industry sectors out there having an equally tough time right now? Should the government be offering more sector specific support for these industries that have been hardest hit, and continue to be hardest hit for the foreseeable future?
I believe that corporate event stuff has been given the green light to operate from October, yet from what I have heard, the continuing uncertainty around travel, mask wearing, general knee jerk government policy, and the PPE/cleaning/social distancing requirements at present is meaning that companies seem reluctant to commit to or book anything at present.
Friends of mine run a (previous to March 2020) very successful a company supplying Audio Visual, technical support and crew for the live events industries (think gigs, festivals, corporate, conference etc). Sounds like they are on the verge of throwing the towel in too with little support available for their staff once furlough ends, yet also no confirmed work until at least spring 221 at the earliest. It's a case of either take what little money is left in the business now and close, or wait for the inevitable bankruptcy. So it is becoming clear that however well run, however well they have planned, businesses simply cannot survive a full 12 months closure of their entire sector.
Knowing what I know, I'm concerned that a lot of perfectly viable businesses will go to the wall this autumn, with entire sectors of our economy absolutely decimated. These sectors have been forced to stop trading by the government so isn't it only right that the government should now step in and support them?
I'd be interested to know of there any other industry sectors out there having an equally tough time right now? Should the government be offering more sector specific support for these industries that have been hardest hit, and continue to be hardest hit for the foreseeable future?
Contingency / Cancellation insurers are being Slaughtered, almost every policy they have written has had a full loss.
The Olympics was insured for $1billion, although it will not be a full loss that is a lot for the market to swallow.
That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
coolg said:
Contingency / Cancellation insurers are being Slaughtered, almost every policy they have written has had a full loss.
The Olympics was insured for $1billion, although it will not be a full loss that is a lot for the market to swallow.
That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
Slaughtered on policy payouts yes, but as much insurance is essential, still able to trade and generate trading revenue from selling new and existing premiums (with increased policy costs) I presume?The Olympics was insured for $1billion, although it will not be a full loss that is a lot for the market to swallow.
That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
Andy20vt said:
coolg said:
Contingency / Cancellation insurers are being Slaughtered, almost every policy they have written has had a full loss.
The Olympics was insured for $1billion, although it will not be a full loss that is a lot for the market to swallow.
That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
Slaughtered on policy payouts yes, but as much insurance is essential, still able to trade and generate trading revenue from selling new and existing premiums (with increased policy costs) I presume?The Olympics was insured for $1billion, although it will not be a full loss that is a lot for the market to swallow.
That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes revenues will be down for sure, but I know a lot of people, particularly those with kids who are desperate to get out of the house and go to work so there may be some spring back. I guess the main thing with this is worker confidence and right now businesses are fearful of making their workers return, perhaps due to the virus, perhaps due to all the associated desk spacing, cleaning and PPE that is associated with running an office during this virus. I think home working was always going to increase as technology moved forward, this virus has just accelerated the existing trend overnight. So should this sector be getting additional government support once furlough ends? They have still been able to operate throughout, just that margins and profit is probably down.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Depends on what the people are doing doesn't it?In my little corner of the world we basically binned 2/3 of HR, don't even need them remotely when you can have systems do it for you. Simultaneously there are lots of engineering and other teams that need to collaborate who are busy getting back into shared office environments because you need the free exchange of information and ideas that you just don't get with the friction of remote working.
Maybe for the worker drones churning away at their little allocated tasks you can just push them off to home but a lot of stuff - and anything where you expect to progress in a 'career' - that isn't going to work for long.
Flexible working may be forever (had that anyway) but on the other hand hot desking has gone right out of fashion for now...
On another note I doubt our landlord is too unhappy right now - we need more space than ever to keep the necessary stuff going with distancing in place.
Andy20vt said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes revenues will be down for sure, but I know a lot of people, particularly those with kids who are desperate to get out of the house and go to work so there may be some spring back. I guess the main thing with this is worker confidence and right now businesses are fearful of making their workers return, perhaps due to the virus, perhaps due to all the associated desk spacing, cleaning and PPE that is associated with running an office during this virus. I think home working was always going to increase as technology moved forward, this virus has just accelerated the existing trend overnight. So should this sector be getting additional government support once furlough ends? They have still been able to operate throughout, just that margins and profit is probably down.
I think the future will be more flexible working.
A colleague once said to me "I love my family but come Monday morning, the best sound is the clunk of my car door closing as I head off to work"
As to the title of this thread.
I work in TV. Most of my very successful freelance buddies have had no money these past 5 months with no sign of work returning.
I thankfully took a full time job with a news channel a year ago, after 30 years of being freelance.
It's dull and boring but boy! do I thank my lucky stars.
I did depend on 4 days or so of freelancing on other shows, just to help with my rent but that's all gone and I can't rightfully chase what little is out there whilst actually having a full time contract. Just wouldn't be fair.
As to the title of this thread.
I work in TV. Most of my very successful freelance buddies have had no money these past 5 months with no sign of work returning.
I thankfully took a full time job with a news channel a year ago, after 30 years of being freelance.
It's dull and boring but boy! do I thank my lucky stars.
I did depend on 4 days or so of freelancing on other shows, just to help with my rent but that's all gone and I can't rightfully chase what little is out there whilst actually having a full time contract. Just wouldn't be fair.
Edited by croyde on Wednesday 19th August 10:13
Edited by croyde on Wednesday 19th August 10:14
pquinn said:
Depends on what the people are doing doesn't it?
In my little corner of the world we basically binned 2/3 of HR, don't even need them remotely when you can have systems do it for you. Simultaneously there are lots of engineering and other teams that need to collaborate who are busy getting back into shared office environments because you need the free exchange of information and ideas that you just don't get with the friction of remote working.
Maybe for the worker drones churning away at their little allocated tasks you can just push them off to home but a lot of stuff - and anything where you expect to progress in a 'career' - that isn't going to work for long.
Flexible working may be forever (had that anyway) but on the other hand hot desking has gone right out of fashion for now...
On another note I doubt our landlord is too unhappy right now - we need more space than ever to keep the necessary stuff going with distancing in place.
Engineers cannot cope with the IT infrastructure of remote access, and their ideas/work ground to a halt unless they are in the office?? In my little corner of the world we basically binned 2/3 of HR, don't even need them remotely when you can have systems do it for you. Simultaneously there are lots of engineering and other teams that need to collaborate who are busy getting back into shared office environments because you need the free exchange of information and ideas that you just don't get with the friction of remote working.
Maybe for the worker drones churning away at their little allocated tasks you can just push them off to home but a lot of stuff - and anything where you expect to progress in a 'career' - that isn't going to work for long.
Flexible working may be forever (had that anyway) but on the other hand hot desking has gone right out of fashion for now...
On another note I doubt our landlord is too unhappy right now - we need more space than ever to keep the necessary stuff going with distancing in place.
Worker drones can but engineers cannot so your company will sack HR staff but pay unnecessary commercial rent to have engineers huddled around the table tennis table in the canteen brainstorming.
I see an audit of commercial spend / square metre / productivity coming up. In a years time prob end up working mostly from home and hotdesking
coolg said:
...
That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
Like bookies and casinos (same industry) you never see a poor one......That said everybody hates insurers so extra support as people only see "car insurance" wont be popular.
To the OP...this has been one of the biggest issues with the furlough system.
I have no issue with one being implemented, but as with many things this government has done, broadly starting with furlough, it has knee jerk reacted.
The scheme put in place was too "blanket" and too generous.
If they'd dialled back on the generosity (ensured people's core living expenses were paused - e.g. as they did by pushing mortgage holidays, then been less generous with the handouts as more generous would not be required), plus been more precise on who it was open to (plenty of businesses were going to the wall anyway, as we will soon find out with unemployment figures, and some sectors simply did not warrant inclusion), then there would have been more in the pot for extended coverage for those who genuinely needed it and would genuinely need it for a longer run.
Yes, it would have taken longer to implement. That in itself may have caused some challenges for some companies. But this is short term gain for medium to long term pain. And it's a dumb way for government to respond.
Not the day job but I'm the chair of a charity which provides daytime respite care (daycentres) for adults with special needs. This only came about because of the local cuts which mandated the closure of all daycentres which were previously run by the council, replaced by a PIP capable of ~2 hours a day of care. We pool PIP payments and replicate the service. Prior to closure we provided care for ~60 adults across the borough and employed 14 people.
Following to onset of the pandemic we closed the daycentres on the initial social distancing advice (early March). With a number of clients having a number of underlying health conditions/not understanding SD we are yet to reopen. All staff are on furlough (we are now required to chip in, 100% from October) and in reality we are unsure when we will be in a position to reopen (aiming for November currently). We have burned through ~30% of our reserves so far and have enough cash to make it through to ~January after winning some government grant income. Given the service we provided closing would hit these people hard, destroying social relationships etc.- we are doing everything we can to get through.
Other daycentres in the locality have already closed for good, its tough out there....
Following to onset of the pandemic we closed the daycentres on the initial social distancing advice (early March). With a number of clients having a number of underlying health conditions/not understanding SD we are yet to reopen. All staff are on furlough (we are now required to chip in, 100% from October) and in reality we are unsure when we will be in a position to reopen (aiming for November currently). We have burned through ~30% of our reserves so far and have enough cash to make it through to ~January after winning some government grant income. Given the service we provided closing would hit these people hard, destroying social relationships etc.- we are doing everything we can to get through.
Other daycentres in the locality have already closed for good, its tough out there....
croyde said:
A colleague once said to me "I love my family but come Monday morning, the best sound is the clunk of my car door closing as I head off to work"
As to the title of this thread.
I work in TV. Most of my very successful freelance buddies have had no money these past 5 months with no sign of work returning.
I thankfully took a full time job with a news channel a year ago, after 30 years of being freelance.
It's dull and boring but boy! do I thank my lucky stars.
I did depend on 4 days or so of freelancing on other shows, just to help with my rent but that's all gone and I can't rightfully chase what little is out there whilst actually having a full time contract. Just wouldn't be fair.
Agree, film and TV (except the News) has been hit really bad. Filming all non-essential stuff cancelled. It's an industry reliant on a lot of freelancers, small specialist Ltd companies etc. Most of those will have been hit very hard with the cancellation or postponement of projects. A candidate for further support I'd have thought?As to the title of this thread.
I work in TV. Most of my very successful freelance buddies have had no money these past 5 months with no sign of work returning.
I thankfully took a full time job with a news channel a year ago, after 30 years of being freelance.
It's dull and boring but boy! do I thank my lucky stars.
I did depend on 4 days or so of freelancing on other shows, just to help with my rent but that's all gone and I can't rightfully chase what little is out there whilst actually having a full time contract. Just wouldn't be fair.
kiethton said:
Not the day job but I'm the chair of a charity which provides daytime respite care (daycentres) for adults with special needs. This only came about because of the local cuts which mandated the closure of all daycentres which were previously run by the council, replaced by a PIP capable of ~2 hours a day of care. We pool PIP payments and replicate the service. Prior to closure we provided care for ~60 adults across the borough and employed 14 people.
Following to onset of the pandemic we closed the daycentres on the initial social distancing advice (early March). With a number of clients having a number of underlying health conditions/not understanding SD we are yet to reopen. All staff are on furlough (we are now required to chip in, 100% from October) and in reality we are unsure when we will be in a position to reopen (aiming for November currently). We have burned through ~30% of our reserves so far and have enough cash to make it through to ~January after winning some government grant income. Given the service we provided closing would hit these people hard, destroying social relationships etc.- we are doing everything we can to get through.
Other daycentres in the locality have already closed for good, its tough out there....
Sound tough, and like this is the sort of thing the government should be supporting further given the inability to re-open with current measures in place.Following to onset of the pandemic we closed the daycentres on the initial social distancing advice (early March). With a number of clients having a number of underlying health conditions/not understanding SD we are yet to reopen. All staff are on furlough (we are now required to chip in, 100% from October) and in reality we are unsure when we will be in a position to reopen (aiming for November currently). We have burned through ~30% of our reserves so far and have enough cash to make it through to ~January after winning some government grant income. Given the service we provided closing would hit these people hard, destroying social relationships etc.- we are doing everything we can to get through.
Other daycentres in the locality have already closed for good, its tough out there....
Murph7355 said:
Like bookies and casinos (same industry) you never see a poor one......
To the OP...this has been one of the biggest issues with the furlough system.
I have no issue with one being implemented, but as with many things this government has done, broadly starting with furlough, it has knee jerk reacted.
The scheme put in place was too "blanket" and too generous.
Agreed a targeted approach would have been better but I guess they didn't have time to implement this, such was the shock and devastating impact of lockdown. This no doubt has resulted in many internet firms with rate-able warehouse space getting government grants etc, when they will have actually benefited vastly from the increase in online shopping - at the expense of their bricks and mortar competitors. To the OP...this has been one of the biggest issues with the furlough system.
I have no issue with one being implemented, but as with many things this government has done, broadly starting with furlough, it has knee jerk reacted.
The scheme put in place was too "blanket" and too generous.
There are some industries/sectors still 100% unable to operate and others with much reduced operations that will need specific support if they are to survive this. They've done it with schemes like 'Eat out to help out' for the restaurant world which seems to be working judging by how full our local places are Mon-Weds. Perhaps a more targeted approach for these other worst hit sectors going forward?
vixen1700 said:
Contracting at a high-end travel company at the moment, the drop in revenue has been insane since March. Our department has been cut by seven since then and many more have gone elsewhere in the company.
Can only be a matter of time really as things aren't improving at all.
Can you see any positive signs of improvement anywhere? How about bookings for winter ski/sun or advance bookings for next year? What do you think it will take for the situation in your industry to improve?Can only be a matter of time really as things aren't improving at all.
Andy20vt said:
Can you see any positive signs of improvement anywhere? How about bookings for winter ski/sun or advance bookings for next year? What do you think it will take for the situation in your industry to improve?
Really difficult to say as it's mainly business travel and also music tours. So think about all those cancelled tours worldwide.
I don't think people really are thinking ahead as nobody knows what restrictions will come in from one day to the next.
The curve on restrictions hasn't flattened yet.
Most sectors will recover and become more efficient following this “crisis”. Unfortunately I cannot see it benefitting the British worker who will see their job done by someone on the other side of the planet who’s happy to receive in a month what the U.K. worker would get in a day. A lot of people will be in for a shock when they think they’re returning to work 
vixen1700 said:
Andy20vt said:
Can you see any positive signs of improvement anywhere? How about bookings for winter ski/sun or advance bookings for next year? What do you think it will take for the situation in your industry to improve?
Really difficult to say as it's mainly business travel and also music tours. So think about all those cancelled tours worldwide.
I don't think people really are thinking ahead as nobody knows what restrictions will come in from one day to the next.
The curve on restrictions hasn't flattened yet.
I wonder when it will change though? For all the remote working, 'people buy people' and can Zoom calls ever be a replacement for 'face to face' in certain circumstances? I used to manage some suppliers over in Asia and 'face to face' was essential since their interpretation of stuff discussed and sent online was always a bit 'hit or miss'. Two international flights and a 'face to face' meeting eliminated countless problems and issues in the making.
In spite of efficiencies through tech, maybe early adopters of business travel once more will deliver themselves a competitive advantage. I mean who would YOU buy from? A salesman you have never met sat behind a screen, or one who can actually be bothered to come and see you and discuss solutions directly with you and your team.
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