California Blackouts. Green Policy Fail
Discussion
The most populated state in the USA and one of the richest areas in the world can't run a reliable electricity grid. Excessive reliance on solar and wind power while closing coal and gas power stations results in blackouts.
More to come in a few years as nuclear gets shut down.
.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-18...
.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2020...
More to come in a few years as nuclear gets shut down.
.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-18...
.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2020...
Isnt this due to the fact that the majority of people are working from home due to COVID, and with an unprecedented heatwave everyone is hammering their aircon units.
Obviously this is not ideal and putting extra strain on the network. I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
Obviously this is not ideal and putting extra strain on the network. I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
Challo said:
Isnt this due to the fact that the majority of people are working from home due to COVID, and with an unprecedented heatwave everyone is hammering their aircon units.
Obviously this is not ideal and putting extra strain on the network. I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
This looks more the result of a deliberate policy to me. Obviously this is not ideal and putting extra strain on the network. I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
Bloomberg said:
One thing that has made California’s grid so vulnerable to soaring demand is the state’s rapid shift away from natural gas. About 9 gigawatts of gas generation, enough to power 6.8 million homes, have been retired over the past five years as the state turns increasingly to renewables, according to BloombergNEF. That leaves fewer options when the sun sets and solar production wanes.
Challo said:
Isnt this due to the fact that the majority of people are working from home due to COVID, and with an unprecedented heatwave everyone is hammering their aircon units.
Obviously this is not ideal and putting extra strain on the network. I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
CAISO’s peak demand levels over the weekend were lower than its historical highest peaks in 2006 and 2017. - which presumably didn't cause blackouts, as reports say it hasn't happened for 16 yearsObviously this is not ideal and putting extra strain on the network. I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
article said:
Wade Schauer, Americas research director at Wood Mackenzie Power & Renewables, noted that California has shut down about 5 gigawatts of dispatchable generation since 2018, while it has only added about 2,200 megawatts of “non-intermittent” generation since then.
California “just hasn’t done enough to keep resource adequacy where it should be, and the reserve margins have gotten tighter more quickly,” Schauer said. The chart below from WoodMac indicates how California’s total generation capacity has fallen below both gross peak and net peak needs, leaving a gap that must be made up from imports from other states.
Many of those states have retired their own generating capacity in recent years and are experiencing the same heat wave, so they have been unable to provide CAISO the level of additional supply it needs, Schauer added.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias-shift-from-natural-gas-to-solar-is-playing-a-role-in-rolling-blackoutsCalifornia “just hasn’t done enough to keep resource adequacy where it should be, and the reserve margins have gotten tighter more quickly,” Schauer said. The chart below from WoodMac indicates how California’s total generation capacity has fallen below both gross peak and net peak needs, leaving a gap that must be made up from imports from other states.
Many of those states have retired their own generating capacity in recent years and are experiencing the same heat wave, so they have been unable to provide CAISO the level of additional supply it needs, Schauer added.
Seems pretty obvious that poorly implemented green policies are to blame.
Californians were 72% in favour of the new emissions laws, and the state has serious issues with air pollution.
This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
I doubt, however, that you have ever started a thread about 'fossil fuel policy fail' with a story about air pollution in the area.
This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
I doubt, however, that you have ever started a thread about 'fossil fuel policy fail' with a story about air pollution in the area.
gregs656 said:
This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
.
Indeed so. they are simply returning to a simpler life, one before electricity..
The problem of lack of power for air conditioning could be solved by moving into accommodation more sheltered from the heat of the sun......such as caves.
Power generation had a tiny share of air pollution back before the switch to green
Tenth source of particle pollution and dwarfed by such things as Residential wood burners and Industry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_Califor...
gregs656 said:
Californians were 72% in favour of the new emissions laws, and the state has serious issues with air pollution.
This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
I doubt, however, that you have ever started a thread about 'fossil fuel policy fail' with a story about air pollution in the area.
I'm sure they were. You can get any answer you want depending on how you word the question. I suspect if they had asked the question, "Do you think we should ban fossil fuels even though that will result in an unreliable electricity supply?" they might have got a different answer.This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
I doubt, however, that you have ever started a thread about 'fossil fuel policy fail' with a story about air pollution in the area.
Misanthrope said:
gregs656 said:
Californians were 72% in favour of the new emissions laws, and the state has serious issues with air pollution.
This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
I doubt, however, that you have ever started a thread about 'fossil fuel policy fail' with a story about air pollution in the area.
I'm sure they were. You can get any answer you want depending on how you word the question. I suspect if they had asked the question, "Do you think we should ban fossil fuels even though that will result in an unreliable electricity supply?" they might have got a different answer.This is obviously a bit of a cluster at the moment, but it doesn't seem to be anything insurmountable and ultimately will improve the every day lives of people there.
I doubt, however, that you have ever started a thread about 'fossil fuel policy fail' with a story about air pollution in the area.
warp9 said:
This isn't anything new. I lived in Orange Country between 1998 - 2002 and it wasn't that unusual to have them then.
Wasn't that Enron's fault? I remember from smartest guys in the room they were supposedly getting stations to go offline in order to bump up the price of electricity (playing with supply/demand).Challo said:
I wouldn't say this a 'Green Policy Fail', they just need to increase capacity in the network.
Did you read the article? Theres no sun in the evening and because of the heatwave there’s no wind - so no amount of solar panels and windmills will actually increase capacity when they need it. They used to rely on gas plants to fill the gap - but they have been ditched.We get the same challenge in winter on freezing windless days in the UK.
eliot said:
Did you read the article? Theres no sun in the evening and because of the heatwave there’s no wind - so no amount of solar panels and windmills will actually increase capacity when they need it. They used to rely on gas plants to fill the gap - but they have been ditched.
We get the same challenge in winter on freezing windless days in the UK.
THe increase in renewable in the UK means that some CCGT ands not used.We get the same challenge in winter on freezing windless days in the UK.
But there are large costs involved, so some companies may reire (mothball) these - as they have done for coal (reasons slightly different).
This means that the reliance on renewables is higher - but National Grid have ot balance the system using less 'reliable sources.
Of late, the level of intervention they have had to take is considerably higher as they cope with reduced demand and more renewable gen.
BSUoS is a half hourly price that (kind of) shows the cost that Nat Grid have had ot pay to balance the system. Needless to say it has gone mental of late.
What we need is more battery storage - something that is reliable to store energy in times of peak supply and release this in peak demand.
At an affordable price ....
AS for Cali ... their policies have pushed the green agenda, which is no bad thing, but more thought should have been given to the composition of the energy complex taht supplies the state.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff