Discussion
Not Covid-19 specific but obviously relating to some of the other threads.
It's well known that there are anti-vaxxers who for one reason or another simply oppose vaccines in general. Some believe nature should take its course. Some believe God decides. Some have a reasoned (on false assumptions IMO) belief that vaccines compromise our immune system or carry greater risks than we are lead to believe.
What seems to get less attention is that some people seem to be simply pro vaccines as a general principle. Whether this is a counter reaction to anti vaxxers, a fetish for new science or a genuine belief that all ailments can be prevented in this way is not entirely clear.
I'd like to think i am a pragmatist (but doesn't everyone?). Vaccines have their place and should be used when the benefits clearly outweigh the risks, but like all medicines should not be over used when the (pretty amazing) immune system is capable of dealing with things on its own.
Anyone want to put the pro vax case? Beyond merely preventing awful diseases, is vaccination a good thing in its own right? And why?
It's well known that there are anti-vaxxers who for one reason or another simply oppose vaccines in general. Some believe nature should take its course. Some believe God decides. Some have a reasoned (on false assumptions IMO) belief that vaccines compromise our immune system or carry greater risks than we are lead to believe.
What seems to get less attention is that some people seem to be simply pro vaccines as a general principle. Whether this is a counter reaction to anti vaxxers, a fetish for new science or a genuine belief that all ailments can be prevented in this way is not entirely clear.
I'd like to think i am a pragmatist (but doesn't everyone?). Vaccines have their place and should be used when the benefits clearly outweigh the risks, but like all medicines should not be over used when the (pretty amazing) immune system is capable of dealing with things on its own.
Anyone want to put the pro vax case? Beyond merely preventing awful diseases, is vaccination a good thing in its own right? And why?
I'm pro vaccine in this case so I can get on with my life, as the government has engineered the story to this point, and it is a given anyway we will have to have one.
I think a lot think they are beyond suggestion, but look around there house it will be filled with brands...
I think a lot think they are beyond suggestion, but look around there house it will be filled with brands...
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 28th November 21:41
crofty1984 said:
I think the "preventing awful diseases" thing is a fairly compelling argument.
Other than that - when the needle goes in I like to pretend I'm an incredibly imporant person and it's actually the communists trying to assassinate me maybe? Is that the kind of thing you were after?
Other than that - when the needle goes in I like to pretend I'm an incredibly imporant person and it's actually the communists trying to assassinate me maybe? Is that the kind of thing you were after?
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Anyone want to put the pro vax case? Beyond merely preventing awful diseases, is vaccination a good thing in its own right? And why?
Surely you just stated the case. Take a vaccine before going to Thailand or risk getting hepatitis A, B, typhoid, yellow fever, encephalitis, rabies or tetanus. Vaccinate chickens against salmonella and you effectively wipe the disease out in the population.
Polio or Measles really suck. Take a vaccine and they no longer do.
I can see what you might be meaning in that once something becomes a tribal issue many people leave their thoughts at the door and just pile-on the opposition, but vaccination has literally changed our world for the good. Arguing that it is somehow a bad thing would be like arguing against sanitation.
The Spruce Goose said:
i'm pro vaccine in this case so I can get on with my life, as the government has engineered the story to this point, and it is a given anyway we will have to have one.
Actually - I agree with Mr Goose here. I've had various vaccinations. The standard ones, and some extra ones due to travelling to some shady places for work a lot (West Africa, South and Central America, the back end of India, Doncaster), but this covid one I have to admit my reasons for having it are 5% disease prevention (I'm in a pretty low-risk group) and 95% "If I have it, will all the madness f
k off?" I'm more scared of not being able to go to gigs again and my pub shutting than I am the actual medical effects of Covid-19, that's assuming I even catch it in the first place.Please can the OP provide some examples of vaccines that have been developed that don’t target potentially serious diseases, otherwise I will have to conclude he is trolling or an idiot. Personally I’ve had vaccines for stuff that I really don’t want to get like polio or hepatitis but perhaps there are vaccines for minor ailments and there are people lining up to get injected for fun.
Esceptico said:
Please can the OP provide some examples of vaccines that have been developed that don’t target potentially serious diseases, otherwise I will have to conclude he is trolling or an idiot. Personally I’ve had vaccines for stuff that I really don’t want to get like polio or hepatitis but perhaps there are vaccines for minor ailments and there are people lining up to get injected for fun.
Not trolling, but with a 0.3% case fatality rate biased towards the very elderley, the COVID-19 vaccines fit into this category? JuanCarlosFandango said:
Anyone want to put the pro vax case? Beyond merely preventing awful diseases, is vaccination a good thing in its own right? And why?
I think you have just put across the pro vax case very succinctly. And herd immunity to those that can't have it, and the dunning krueger antis.
When i get invited to be vaccinated I'm more than happy to get it,especially if it offers a passport to get back to normal.
glazbagun said:
Surely you just stated the case. Take a vaccine before going to Thailand or risk getting hepatitis A, B, typhoid, yellow fever, encephalitis, rabies or tetanus.
Vaccinate chickens against salmonella and you effectively wipe the disease out in the population.
Polio or Measles really suck. Take a vaccine and they no longer do.
I can see what you might be meaning in that once something becomes a tribal issue many people leave their thoughts at the door and just pile-on the opposition, but vaccination has literally changed our world for the good. Arguing that it is somehow a bad thing would be like arguing against sanitation.
Polio is an interesting one as the cheap oral vaccine is an attenuated live virus and can mutate to become infectious. Last year in Africa there were more cases of children paralysed by being infected from the mutated oral vaccine than the wild virus: https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/polio-v...Vaccinate chickens against salmonella and you effectively wipe the disease out in the population.
Polio or Measles really suck. Take a vaccine and they no longer do.
I can see what you might be meaning in that once something becomes a tribal issue many people leave their thoughts at the door and just pile-on the opposition, but vaccination has literally changed our world for the good. Arguing that it is somehow a bad thing would be like arguing against sanitation.
Surely a pro vaxxer would be someone militant about others being vaccinated ie wanting it to be mandatory?
Everyone else is just a sensible/decent human being who is vaccinated for a mixture of self preservation and protecting those who for whatever reason are unable to have a vaccination themselves. Not pro vaxxers just pro greater good.
In the same way that people who don’t want to have a particular vaccination are not anti vaxxers per se. To qualify there you’d have to refuse all vaccines on non medical grounds which would make them a selfish tt in most of our books but that’s the individual’s prerogative.
Everyone else is just a sensible/decent human being who is vaccinated for a mixture of self preservation and protecting those who for whatever reason are unable to have a vaccination themselves. Not pro vaxxers just pro greater good.
In the same way that people who don’t want to have a particular vaccination are not anti vaxxers per se. To qualify there you’d have to refuse all vaccines on non medical grounds which would make them a selfish t
t in most of our books but that’s the individual’s prerogative.plasticpig said:
Polio is an interesting one as the cheap oral vaccine is an attenuated live virus and can mutate to become infectious. Last year in Africa there were more cases of children paralysed by being infected from the mutated oral vaccine than the wild virus: https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/polio-v...
Interesting that Africa and Asia get the '' relatively cheap to produce and easy to administer'' vaccine whilst the west gets the more expensive better suited vaccine.That isn't a vaccine argument, this is treating poorer people lesser than richer people argument..
All men are equal just some more equal than others...
bigandclever said:
Vaccine-preventable diseases haven’t disappeared so I like to think I’m doing more for wider society as a whole than just for purely selfish reasons of not wanting some lurgy.
Polio would have been extinct, but for a few politico/religious anti vax loons killing those doing the vaccinations. Thankfully, now down to just a handful of cases.eldar said:
bigandclever said:
Vaccine-preventable diseases haven’t disappeared so I like to think I’m doing more for wider society as a whole than just for purely selfish reasons of not wanting some lurgy.
Polio would have been extinct, but for a few politico/religious anti vax loons killing those doing the vaccinations. Thankfully, now down to just a handful of cases.https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/202...
lol
Esceptico said:
dmahon said:
Not trolling, but with a 0.3% case fatality rate biased towards the very elderley, the COVID-19 vaccines fit into this category?
Not trolling? I must be imagining the impact Covid has had on the world since the beginning of 2020. circa 54 million dead from other things so far this year.
(Source: https://www.worldometers.info/ / https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ )
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff