“Essex girl” removed from dictionary
Discussion
Read in the paper that after lobbying the phrase “Essex girl” has been removed from the Advanced Learner Oxford Dictionary on the basis that it is offensive.
Another example of the censorship creeping into our society. People often blandly through around the term “Orwellian” (even though a good number have probably never read 1984) but such an approach truly is similar to the attempt to control people’s minds by removing offending words from language in 1984.
I wonder what words are going to be cancelled next.
Another example of the censorship creeping into our society. People often blandly through around the term “Orwellian” (even though a good number have probably never read 1984) but such an approach truly is similar to the attempt to control people’s minds by removing offending words from language in 1984.
I wonder what words are going to be cancelled next.
Was it removed because of a campaign or is this like one of those tabloid “wins” where they claim a victory when it was going to happen anyway? Essex Girl is not a common phrase anymore so was probably removed because it’s not needed in a learners dictionary.
Also, OUP do not make moral choices or sensor. The OED is a list of definitions and an account of modern usage, not a moral judgment or guide on correct usage. I find it very strange when people get angry about what is or is not included.
Also, OUP do not make moral choices or sensor. The OED is a list of definitions and an account of modern usage, not a moral judgment or guide on correct usage. I find it very strange when people get angry about what is or is not included.
Agree, this approach to avoiding offence really bothers me too. A dictionary should cover all words and phrases in common use, and just say if the terms are considered offensive.
My main objection to Essex Girl jokes isn’t the Essex bit but the Girl bit. Seems to me they are an oblique way for men to put down women generally as promiscuous and/or stupid, and therefore misogyny. For that reason, I put them in the same category as blonde jokes, and (as a man) won’t tell them myself.
That said, I’ve no objection if, for example, women told these kinds of jokes on a hen night, as the context there would be completely different. I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
My main objection to Essex Girl jokes isn’t the Essex bit but the Girl bit. Seems to me they are an oblique way for men to put down women generally as promiscuous and/or stupid, and therefore misogyny. For that reason, I put them in the same category as blonde jokes, and (as a man) won’t tell them myself.
That said, I’ve no objection if, for example, women told these kinds of jokes on a hen night, as the context there would be completely different. I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 6th December 08:36
La Liga said:
Is this a parody post?
I can’t go around shouting the ‘N word’ in the street with impunity, they’re trying to control my mind!
Also, the OED is keeping the definition. ‘A victory’ etc if you want to frame it as such...
Is this a parody post?I can’t go around shouting the ‘N word’ in the street with impunity, they’re trying to control my mind!
Also, the OED is keeping the definition. ‘A victory’ etc if you want to frame it as such...
4 posts in and already the launched the race card, gone from “essex girl” to “shouting the n-word in the street” in an epic display of Olympic level mental gymnastics.
Is it any wonder people can’t have a reasonable debate about these types of issues in an ever changing world if idiots immediately throw in an utterly unrelated race issue in order to get the discussion undermined.
......Essex girl to shouting the ‘N’ word in the street.......ffs......
It was removed from 'a' dictionary (a dictionary intended for non-native English speakers) not from 'the' dictionary (usually defined as the OED).
I'm struggling to see how anyone could be upset about not teaching people an outdated derogatory term for women which nobody really uses anymore - unless of course they hadn't actually read or understood the article properly in the first place and were just desperate to take offence at *something*.
I'm struggling to see how anyone could be upset about not teaching people an outdated derogatory term for women which nobody really uses anymore - unless of course they hadn't actually read or understood the article properly in the first place and were just desperate to take offence at *something*.
doesthiswork said:
It was removed from 'a' dictionary (a dictionary intended for non-native English speakers) not from 'the' dictionary (usually defined as the OED).
I'm struggling to see how anyone could be upset about not teaching people an outdated derogatory term for women which nobody really uses anymore - unless of course they hadn't actually read or understood the article properly in the first place and were just desperate to take offence at *something*.
There’s a huge and important difference between “teaching people” which could suggest actively going to look for a phrase and then use it, or is it surely better to leave a record of the phrase that can be seen, the context of it learnt and used to move on.....that’s where I would guess many have an issue with this type of censorship.I'm struggling to see how anyone could be upset about not teaching people an outdated derogatory term for women which nobody really uses anymore - unless of course they hadn't actually read or understood the article properly in the first place and were just desperate to take offence at *something*.
I don’t think it’s the phrase, more the act.
166 MM Barchetta said:
doesthiswork said:
It was removed from 'a' dictionary (a dictionary intended for non-native English speakers) not from 'the' dictionary (usually defined as the OED).
I'm struggling to see how anyone could be upset about not teaching people an outdated derogatory term for women which nobody really uses anymore - unless of course they hadn't actually read or understood the article properly in the first place and were just desperate to take offence at *something*.
There’s a huge and important difference between “teaching people” which could suggest actively going to look for a phrase and then use it, or is it surely better to leave a record of the phrase that can be seen, the context of it learnt and used to move on.....that’s where I would guess many have an issue with this type of censorship.I'm struggling to see how anyone could be upset about not teaching people an outdated derogatory term for women which nobody really uses anymore - unless of course they hadn't actually read or understood the article properly in the first place and were just desperate to take offence at *something*.
I don’t think it’s the phrase, more the act.
The record is left in the OED, the Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary doesn't serve the same purpose.
67Dino said:
Agree, this approach to avoiding offence really bothers me too. A dictionary should cover all words and phrases in common use, and just say if the terms are considered offensive.
My main objection to Essex Girl jokes isn’t the Essex bit but the Girl bit. Seems to me they are an oblique way for men to put down women generally as promiscuous and/or stupid, and therefore misogyny. For that reason, I put them in the same category as blonde jokes, and (as a man) won’t tell them myself.
That said, I’ve no objection if, for example, women told these kinds of jokes on a hen night, as the context there would be completely different. I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
You mean like the term toxic masculinity.My main objection to Essex Girl jokes isn’t the Essex bit but the Girl bit. Seems to me they are an oblique way for men to put down women generally as promiscuous and/or stupid, and therefore misogyny. For that reason, I put them in the same category as blonde jokes, and (as a man) won’t tell them myself.
That said, I’ve no objection if, for example, women told these kinds of jokes on a hen night, as the context there would be completely different. I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 6th December 08:36
67Dino said:
I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
This.Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 6th December 08:36
Ps I've read 1984. The subject of the article is nothing like the events and situation imagined by George Orwell. Not in a million years.
If you're worried about important parts of our culture being lost, I'm sure there's some old Jim Davidson comedy on the internet you can watch
voyds9 said:
67Dino said:
Agree, this approach to avoiding offence really bothers me too. A dictionary should cover all words and phrases in common use, and just say if the terms are considered offensive.
My main objection to Essex Girl jokes isn’t the Essex bit but the Girl bit. Seems to me they are an oblique way for men to put down women generally as promiscuous and/or stupid, and therefore misogyny. For that reason, I put them in the same category as blonde jokes, and (as a man) won’t tell them myself.
That said, I’ve no objection if, for example, women told these kinds of jokes on a hen night, as the context there would be completely different. I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
You mean like the term toxic masculinity.My main objection to Essex Girl jokes isn’t the Essex bit but the Girl bit. Seems to me they are an oblique way for men to put down women generally as promiscuous and/or stupid, and therefore misogyny. For that reason, I put them in the same category as blonde jokes, and (as a man) won’t tell them myself.
That said, I’ve no objection if, for example, women told these kinds of jokes on a hen night, as the context there would be completely different. I’d also not remove the term from a dictionary, just flag that it was derogatory and misogynistic.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 6th December 08:36
67Dino said:
Appreciate the conciseness but left me a little unclear whether you’re agreeing with me and saying that use of the term ‘Essex Girl’ is an example of toxic masculinity, or saying that the term ‘toxic masculinity’ is as offensive to men as ‘Essex girl’ is to women. Wouldn’t want to misread your point. As it is, I agree with the former, not the latter.
Just trying to point out the double standards. The people who object to terms like Essex girl are often the same ones who use terms like toxic masculinity.Feminists have fought for the rights to stop boys fighting.
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