95-year-old Nazi concentration camp secretary charged.
Discussion
Interesting case from over in Germany re a 95 year old lady who worked, when she was a teenager, as a stenographer and secretary at a Nazi concentration camp. She has now been charged with 10,000 counts of being an accessory to murder.
Have German prosecutors done the right thing by going after this lady?
Have German prosecutors done the right thing by going after this lady?
Guardian said:
German prosecutors have charged a former secretary at a Nazi concentration camp with complicity in the murders of 10,000 people, in the first such case in recent years against a woman.
The 95-year-old accused had worked at the Stutthof camp near what was Danzig, now Gdansk, in then Nazi-occupied Poland.
Prosecutors did not name the woman, but the regional broadcaster NDR identified her as Irmgard F, who lives in a elderly care home in the north of Hamburg.
The suspect “is accused of having assisted those responsible at the camp in the systematic killing of Jewish prisoners, Polish partisans and Soviet Russian prisoners of war in her function as a stenographer and secretary to the camp commander” between June 1943 and April 1945, the prosecutors said in a statement.
The woman, who was a minor at the time of the alleged crimes, is charged with “aiding and abetting murder in more than 10,000 cases” as well as complicity in attempted murder, added prosecutors from the northern city of Itzehoe.
linkThe 95-year-old accused had worked at the Stutthof camp near what was Danzig, now Gdansk, in then Nazi-occupied Poland.
Prosecutors did not name the woman, but the regional broadcaster NDR identified her as Irmgard F, who lives in a elderly care home in the north of Hamburg.
The suspect “is accused of having assisted those responsible at the camp in the systematic killing of Jewish prisoners, Polish partisans and Soviet Russian prisoners of war in her function as a stenographer and secretary to the camp commander” between June 1943 and April 1945, the prosecutors said in a statement.
The woman, who was a minor at the time of the alleged crimes, is charged with “aiding and abetting murder in more than 10,000 cases” as well as complicity in attempted murder, added prosecutors from the northern city of Itzehoe.
Yes, she should be prosecuted but what can the penalty actually be she is 95. Also was she an active participant or did she work in the camp v being a inmate. My guess would be plea
ed guilty and go home etc.
It seems odd, was she in hiding all this time an is she a dyed in the wool Nazi or was she a young girl forced to work as a typist
ed guilty and go home etc.
It seems odd, was she in hiding all this time an is she a dyed in the wool Nazi or was she a young girl forced to work as a typist
I'm not certain of this, but isn't this just part of a process that, in Germany, means that it goes to a sort of pre-trial hearing, where the court decides whether to proceed?
Can she get a fair trial? Seems unlikely to me, but that's something, presumably, for the court to decide.
She was 17 or 18 at the time she started work there. This was at a time of reversals of the war for Germany, and one wonders what choices she had.
Is it a case of Germany, with a different generation in control, showing that it's changed completely?
Can she get a fair trial? Seems unlikely to me, but that's something, presumably, for the court to decide.
She was 17 or 18 at the time she started work there. This was at a time of reversals of the war for Germany, and one wonders what choices she had.
Is it a case of Germany, with a different generation in control, showing that it's changed completely?
Derek Smith said:
I'm not certain of this, but isn't this just part of a process that, in Germany, means that it goes to a sort of pre-trial hearing, where the court decides whether to proceed?
Can she get a fair trial? Seems unlikely to me, but that's something, presumably, for the court to decide.
She was 17 or 18 at the time she started work there. This was at a time of reversals of the war for Germany, and one wonders what choices she had.
Is it a case of Germany, with a different generation in control, showing that it's changed completely?
Due to her age at the time she'll be tried in a juvenile court. While I am Jewish and lost many very close relatives in the camps, I feel that charging a 17 year old who would probably have been brainwashed in the Hitler Youth and told where to go and what to do is a bit much. How could she have said "no"? Can she get a fair trial? Seems unlikely to me, but that's something, presumably, for the court to decide.
She was 17 or 18 at the time she started work there. This was at a time of reversals of the war for Germany, and one wonders what choices she had.
Is it a case of Germany, with a different generation in control, showing that it's changed completely?
Ayahuasca said:
As a stenographer and secretary she might have seen documents that told her exactly what was going on at the camp.
Yes obviously but what is she have supposed to have done to stop it. Ring the whistle blowing line?What is the purpose of this besides political motivated...
It is not just about her though
every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
steveo3002 said:
Ayahuasca said:
As a stenographer and secretary she might have seen documents that told her exactly what was going on at the camp.
and what coud they have done? rang the police / letter to the boss?For all we know she may have been an enthusiastic volunteer.
citizensm1th said:
It is not just about her though
every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
This is why I say prosecute her, I bet she knew what was going on. But she could do nothing unless she wanted to join them. She probably was brain washed so may even have been in favour of the process but end of the day at 95 pleased guilty an go home.every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
The shame of it is many went unpunished after the war who made a fortune from slave labour in the camps
There is a precedent.
Bruno Dey was a 17 year old at the same camp. He was tried at the age of 93 last year and given a two year suspended sentence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53511391
Bruno Dey was a 17 year old at the same camp. He was tried at the age of 93 last year and given a two year suspended sentence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53511391
citizensm1th said:
It is not just about her though
every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
I would extend that to the likes of IBM and Bayer not to mention all the financial investment from the USA from the 1920s onwards. every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
Where/when do we stop?
What about banks that lent money for the Nazis?
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/w...
citizensm1th said:
It is not just about her though
every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
Which in reality would have been at least half the population of Germany, there's a reason the allies gave up on attempts at denazification. every single person who helped the Nazi's further their crimes against humanity should never be able to rest easy .they should go to their graves always looking over their shoulder.
and before someone says it i also believe that the companies who built the system have never paid the full price.
Ayahuasca said:
There is a precedent.
Bruno Dey was a 17 year old at the same camp. He was tried at the age of 93 last year and given a two year suspended sentence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53511391
He was a guard who manned a tower at the camp. Therefore armed, and could be assumed to have been in a position of preventing escapes by shooting people. Part of the prosecution is that he wasn't in the SS and could have asked for a transfer - doesn't mean he'd have got it, but would have shown intent to not be involved in what he saw. Bruno Dey was a 17 year old at the same camp. He was tried at the age of 93 last year and given a two year suspended sentence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53511391
So, maybe she should be tried, to see what she knew and what she might have done to be less complicit. As basically a secretary, with the reduced level of authority and power most women had in that time and culture, I'd be surprised if her case went the same way as Dey's.
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