Adult learning set to be axed.
Discussion
OK, yes it's from the Grauniad but it does raise an important question.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/feb/06/...
Adults have had subsidised education opportunities for many years through their Trade Union and Employer - it's seen as a win-win for everyone.
Now it's being cancelled to save £12 million. I've seen some of my colleagues in the NHS get education and training that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to access through this scheme. Short termism or a good way to save £12 million?
SD.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/feb/06/...
Adults have had subsidised education opportunities for many years through their Trade Union and Employer - it's seen as a win-win for everyone.
Now it's being cancelled to save £12 million. I've seen some of my colleagues in the NHS get education and training that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to access through this scheme. Short termism or a good way to save £12 million?
SD.
shed driver said:
OK, yes it's from the Grauniad but it does raise an important question.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/feb/06/...
Adults have had subsidised education opportunities for many years through their Trade Union and Employer - it's seen as a win-win for everyone.
Now it's being cancelled to save £12 million. I've seen some of my colleagues in the NHS get education and training that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to access through this scheme. Short termism or a good way to save £12 million?
SD.
It's politics. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/feb/06/...
Adults have had subsidised education opportunities for many years through their Trade Union and Employer - it's seen as a win-win for everyone.
Now it's being cancelled to save £12 million. I've seen some of my colleagues in the NHS get education and training that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to access through this scheme. Short termism or a good way to save £12 million?
SD.
It looks short-termist, and beyond that, basically counter-productive at first read.
hstewie said:selym said:
over_the_hill said:
Slightly off topic but for those old enough to remember does "Night School" still exist ?
My son is doing Maths and English GCSE resits at college in the evenings, if that counts?It used to be pretty common for people to go to the local secondary school in the evenings for classes in stuff like Bookkeeping, Accounts, French etc.
I quite enjoyed my adult education classes but they ended up either getting expensive or at the wrong time.
One class I attended was on an evening, I was the only person paying the full amount others were subsidised guess who showed up for every class and guess who didn't.
I've always wanted to learn the guitar so was looking for an evening class to teach the basics. The were only every on an afternoon, say Tuesdays 2-4 so I would not only have had to pay the full amount but would also have had to take a day off work.
It seems to me they are aimed at people who have had a chance at an education and messed it up and now will likely do the same again as there is no incentive for them to attend.
However, I also feel basic maths and English should be free for all students.
One class I attended was on an evening, I was the only person paying the full amount others were subsidised guess who showed up for every class and guess who didn't.
I've always wanted to learn the guitar so was looking for an evening class to teach the basics. The were only every on an afternoon, say Tuesdays 2-4 so I would not only have had to pay the full amount but would also have had to take a day off work.
It seems to me they are aimed at people who have had a chance at an education and messed it up and now will likely do the same again as there is no incentive for them to attend.
However, I also feel basic maths and English should be free for all students.
over_the_hill said:
selym said:
over_the_hill said:
Slightly off topic but for those old enough to remember does "Night School" still exist ?
My son is doing Maths and English GCSE resits at college in the evenings, if that counts?It used to be pretty common for people to go to the local secondary school in the evenings for classes in stuff like Bookkeeping, Accounts, French etc.
over_the_hill said:
Slightly off topic but for those old enough to remember does "Night School" still exist ?
Yes. My wife did her Nursery Practitioner qualifications at night school. It was expensive, but free to people on benefits.As you can imagine the ones that got it free took the piss by hardly ever turning up, and only doing to bare minimum to keep the benefits people happy.
98elise said:
Yes. My wife did her Nursery Practitioner qualifications at night school. It was expensive, but free to people on benefits.
As you can imagine the ones that got it free took the piss by hardly ever turning up, and only doing to bare minimum to keep the benefits people happy.
My son has found this, the attendance has dropped over the last six months on his two courses. Many didn't turn up for their mock exams. Granted, it has been a mixture of in college and online which some may not find easy to deal with. As you can imagine the ones that got it free took the piss by hardly ever turning up, and only doing to bare minimum to keep the benefits people happy.
My boy is a lazy sod but I'm proud to say he's aceing it at the moment; in attendance, attitude and performance.
Over the years, I've completed quite a few adult evening classes. They were, in the main, subsidised by the local authority, but I still had to pay a certain amount. It increased year on year above inflation. I've done a couple of history ones - great for student contribution, not to mention argument. Creative writing x4, photography, guitar, and another history one that was mixed with politics, arguments stamped on, were the memorable ones. I always wanted to do an OU degree course, but by the time I was ready, Cameron appeared.
I did two nights a week, total 6 hrs, for a year and then one night a week, 2.5 hrs, for one year for my job. I got no extra pay, irritating as I lost overtime, and had to pay the extortionate fees myself. My company refused any funding. Then, joy of joys, there was a problem that only someone suitably qualified could resolve and the floor manager told, yes told, me to get on with it as the engineer was not available for 48 hrs. I said I wasn't qualified, he said I was, I demanded that he prove it. The company would have lost £00s, maybe into three zeros, so I knew they'd back down. Even then they did not pay me the full call-out fee (extortionate again, so I had a certain sympathy - just joking) but I got an increase in hourly rate. I never got back my 'investment', unless you include the smug feeling.
I can't help but believe that subsidising education for the masses in a much better investment than a train that few will use. Or even two feet of track for it.
There used to be a massive and eclectic mix of courses in the prospectus that was put through my door each year. Many of the daytime classes were there for people who were unemployed or those looking after schoolkids who were after job skills. In 2019 I wanted a course on a specific type of software but none were available within an hour’s drive from my place. The selection was poor.
I did two nights a week, total 6 hrs, for a year and then one night a week, 2.5 hrs, for one year for my job. I got no extra pay, irritating as I lost overtime, and had to pay the extortionate fees myself. My company refused any funding. Then, joy of joys, there was a problem that only someone suitably qualified could resolve and the floor manager told, yes told, me to get on with it as the engineer was not available for 48 hrs. I said I wasn't qualified, he said I was, I demanded that he prove it. The company would have lost £00s, maybe into three zeros, so I knew they'd back down. Even then they did not pay me the full call-out fee (extortionate again, so I had a certain sympathy - just joking) but I got an increase in hourly rate. I never got back my 'investment', unless you include the smug feeling.
I can't help but believe that subsidising education for the masses in a much better investment than a train that few will use. Or even two feet of track for it.
There used to be a massive and eclectic mix of courses in the prospectus that was put through my door each year. Many of the daytime classes were there for people who were unemployed or those looking after schoolkids who were after job skills. In 2019 I wanted a course on a specific type of software but none were available within an hour’s drive from my place. The selection was poor.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/28/...
link said:
As part of a package of measures unveiled by Downing Street, people who do not have A-levels or equivalent qualifications will be able to study a college course in England from April paid for via the £2.5bn national skills fund.
At present, the government pays for a first A-level equivalent qualification up to the age of 23, but this is being extended to all ages for courses deemed to be valued by employers with further details of those available due to be set out next month.
2.5bn vs 12m. May be the unions should have been more supportive of the Gov. then they might find that support is reciprocated. Aiming further education at new industries and areas where there are job shortages seems like a sensible move to me. Trade union studies not so much.At present, the government pays for a first A-level equivalent qualification up to the age of 23, but this is being extended to all ages for courses deemed to be valued by employers with further details of those available due to be set out next month.
Vanden Saab said:
2.5bn vs 12m. May be the unions should have been more supportive of the Gov. then they might find that support is reciprocated. Aiming further education at new industries and areas where there are job shortages seems like a sensible move to me. Trade union studies not so much.
It's not just Trade Union studies though. I would argue that having well educated trade union representatives is a bonus for everyone though. One of my colleagues did a Health and Safety representatives course, got the bug for learning, and saw that she could do it. She's now a few months off completing her Masters in Nursing having gone to university in her late 40s to become a Registered Nurse. SD.
selym said:
98elise said:
Yes. My wife did her Nursery Practitioner qualifications at night school. It was expensive, but free to people on benefits.
As you can imagine the ones that got it free took the piss by hardly ever turning up, and only doing to bare minimum to keep the benefits people happy.
My son has found this, the attendance has dropped over the last six months on his two courses. Many didn't turn up for their mock exams. Granted, it has been a mixture of in college and online which some may not find easy to deal with. As you can imagine the ones that got it free took the piss by hardly ever turning up, and only doing to bare minimum to keep the benefits people happy.
My boy is a lazy sod but I'm proud to say he's aceing it at the moment; in attendance, attitude and performance.
My son-in-law went on an electrician’s course after losing his job as a commodities broker in 2008. He left with a fair amount of money and said the course - full time - took a considerable chunk of it. The students, a dozen some of whom were subsidised, were told at the start that there were placements for just half a dozen, and it started very competitively, but no worries as there were only 5 who got to the end, and one of those went on a remedial course.
He’s now a specialist checker of ‘things electrical’, one of only two in the south central/east and picks and chooses his jobs. No golfing of an afternoon, that he’s not allowed to win despite being scratch, or was in those days, but home every evening. He loves it.
He reckoned that those who would find the course manageable would probably not be the ones who applied as if they lost their jobs they’d be able to get some other form of employment. Big risk to pay that amount of money.
I changed jobs in my late 20s and thought of going for a vocational course of evening classes, but it was a lot of work, I’d lose money in addition to the fees as I’d not get overtime, and there would be no guarantee that I’d find a job when qualified, and certainly not at a living wage. I joined the police, a sensible option as it turned out ’cause that was when Thatcher sent the unemployment figures skywards.
12 poxy million? Jesus, this government is unreal. Many multiples of that sum have been wasted over the last 12 months (PPE procurement, track and trace, operation moonshot) need I go on?
Short-sighted, if Williamson is involved I'm not surprised in the slightest. The man can barely string a sentence together.
Short-sighted, if Williamson is involved I'm not surprised in the slightest. The man can barely string a sentence together.
shed driver said:
Vanden Saab said:
2.5bn vs 12m. May be the unions should have been more supportive of the Gov. then they might find that support is reciprocated. Aiming further education at new industries and areas where there are job shortages seems like a sensible move to me. Trade union studies not so much.
It's not just Trade Union studies though. I would argue that having well educated trade union representatives is a bonus for everyone though. One of my colleagues did a Health and Safety representatives course, got the bug for learning, and saw that she could do it. She's now a few months off completing her Masters in Nursing having gone to university in her late 40s to become a Registered Nurse. SD.
It’s a win/win for all concerned (well, except for the government it seems) as the employee gets to improve him/herself which means that they stand a better chance for internal promotion which is a win for the company and the employee is more content in their work environment.
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